Last issue AA badges to STAFFORDS, PWO and WFR

[Stafford Knot]

Hello. I'm new to the forum and very pleased to have become a member.

I am interested in modern (ie. post-2000) cap badges and have a query regarding the Orders of Dress of, and in particular the cap badges worn by, soldiers of the Staffordshire Regiment, PWO Regiment of Yorkshire and the Worcester & Sherwood Foresters from this date and until they became battalions of the new post-FAS regiments.

Does anyone know when the STAFFORDS, PWO and WFR stopped issuing AA staybrite cap badges in favour of frosted bimetal (STAFFORDS), bimetal (WFR) and silver plated (PWO) versions. From the various examles of AA badges around I'm guesing this happend sometime between 2000 and 2006.

This followed a trend early in the new decade with other reguiments taking the opportunity to move away from staybrite badges towards gilded and other heavier metal versions, and even change their design (eg. QLR and KINGS)

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Stafford Knot

Hello. I'm new to the forum and very pleased to have become a member.

I am interested in modern (ie. post-2000) cap badges and have a query regarding the Orders of Dress of, and in particular the cap badges worn by, soldiers of the Staffordshire Regiment, PWO Regiment of Yorkshire and the Worcester & Sherwood Foresters from this date and until they became battalions of the new post-FAS regiments.

Does anyone know when the STAFFORDS, PWO and WFR stopped issuing AA staybrite cap badges in favour of frosted bimetal (STAFFORDS), bimetal (WFR) and silver plated (PWO) versions. From the various examles of AA badges around I'm guesing this happend sometime between 2000 and 2006.

This followed a trend early in the new decade with other reguiments taking the opportunity to move away from staybrite badges towards gilded and other heavier metal versions, and even change their design (eg. QLR and KINGS)

Hi There,

The Staffordshire Regt and WFR (assume Worcestershire & Sherwood Foresters Regiment) in A/A were both still officially authorised for issue as of 12th August 2009.

Can you give me the proper name of PWO - do you mean Leeds Rifles (Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire)? If so, this badge was only authorised for issue in A/A as far as I know in 1963.

If you mean Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire then the last year that I have for its official authorisation for issue in A/A is 1997.

I need the full names for the units in question as abbreviations that relate to them constantly changed as did the badges.

Regards

Chris

[Alan O]

I have seen these lugged Staffs badges and I am not sure that they are ORs but are Officers ones.

[grey_green_acorn]

The British Army Officer Issue Cap Badge to the Staffordshire Regiment is/was in Dead Gilt / Silver Plate by FIRMIN with two long lugs and split pin.
Photo shows one new and unissued in sealed plastic bag with all details as above and dated 04/12/06.
NSN 8455 99 130 3737

[grey_green_acorn]

The last issue Cap Badge to the Worcestershire & Sherwood Foresters Regiment (WFR) was in "new metal" non polishable DGilt/Silver Burnish with slider marked FIRMIN.
Picture (sorry about quality) shows one in sealed plasic bag of issue with full details dated 02/12/04

NSN 8455 99 122 9044

Front and rear views added.

[Alan O]

Thanks. very useful. Can you just confirm that the Staffs is described as Officers (only) and the Woofers is ORs (but 'Officer' quality).

[grey_green_acorn]

Alan,
Yes the STAFFORDS reads "STAFFORDSHRE REGIMENT OFFICER"
The WFR is 'new metal' quality but not frosted - I have added some more pictures.

PWO to follow

[grey_green_acorn]

This is the Prince of Wales Own (PWO)
Made by FIRMIN & SONS plc
Finish "Bright Silver" Patt No 28805
Date 16/01/04
NSN 8455 99 8695 601

[Stafford Knot]

Guys

Thank you for your helpful contributions. Sorry its taken a while to join in but I've had problems with my IT.

1. PWO and WFR - I also have the bright silver and degdilt/burnished badges in their packets of the Prince of Wales' Own Regiment of Yorkshire (PWO) and the Worcester & Sherwood Foresters (WFR), respectively. Mine are dated June 2005. I have also found a reference in the journal of the Military Historical Society that the PWO were considering a change to thier badge in the early 2000s. Robin Hodges 2005 book though refers to the PWO having AA and the WFR having bimetal badges. The AA examples of these badges I have in my collection are marked 'Firmin London' (PWO) and 'LB&B' (WFR). I haven't seen any marked just 'Firmin' unless anyone has any. I can only conclude therefore that both Regiments changed from issuing AA to soldiers to the heavier metal badges at some point between 2000 and 2004, the WFR probably before the PWO. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has either badge marked just 'Firmin'. I may also contact the Regt (now Bn) Secretaries to try and confirm all this.

2. Staffordshire Regiment - Thanks to 'GGA' for identifying the Staffords badge I have as an Officers' issue. As I know that the wire woven badge was worn by Officers' on the No1 & 2 'blue' dress cap, I can only conclude that the DeGilt/SP badge was for wear on the khaki SD cap in Barracks Dress.

I'm still therefore none the wiser about the badge issued to soldiers up until FAS merger. I haven't seen any AA badges marked, say, 'Firmin' indicating any were made in the ealry 2000s, only the older 'Firmin London' and even older 'JR Gaunt' types. However, Robin Hodges' book does refer to issue 'bimetal frosted' badges. Can anyone shed any more light on this? I will also drop a line to the Regt (now Mercian Bn) to see if I can clear this up. I'll let you know how I get on. In the meantime I'd like to hear if anyone has a Staffords badge marked just 'Firmin', particularly if you have a spare!

Peter

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

The British Army Officer Issue Cap Badge to the Staffordshire Regiment is/was in Dead Gilt / Silver Plate by FIRMIN with two long lugs and split pin.
Photo shows one new and unissued in sealed plastic bag with all details as above and dated 04/12/06.
NSN 8455 99 130 3737

Can you tell me exactly what the bag says as that is the NSN for the A/A Other ranks badge. Chris has it listed here:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...=8455-130-3737

As NSNs do not change this should make it an ORs badge as well. Either that or Chris has the NSN for the Offrs badge?

Alan

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Can you tell me exactly what the bag says as that is the NSN for the A/A Other ranks badge. Chris has it listed here:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...=8455-130-3737

As NSNs do not change this should make it an ORs badge as well. Either that or Chris has the NSN for the Offrs badge?

Alan

Alan,
COSA 1982 shows NSN 8455 99 974 1113 For the STAFFORDS "Aluminium, anodised, gold, silver, gold, silver Other ranks"

NSN 8455 99 130 3738 is for the "Gilding metal, gilt and silver plated, gold and silver Officers"

By the way most Officers badges listed in COSA 1982 are NSN 8455 99 130 ....

The FIRMIN & SONS LTD sealed badge bag in my post number 4 reads:
NSN 8455 99 130 3737
DESC STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT OFFICER
CONT NO DC7AESL/4183 ITEM 7
FINISH DEAD GILT D SILVER PATT NO 30237
So it would appear that NSNs do change (the "new" Officer badge is in different metal material?) and Chris may have the wrong one listed!
By the way most Officer Badges listed in COSA 1982 are NSN 8455 99 130 ....

[54Bty]

COSA 1982 shows NSN 8455 99 974 1113 For the STAFFORDS "Aluminium, anodised, gold, silver, gold, silver Other ranks

This is the collar badge. The Cap badge is NSN CB 8455-99-135-3707 (COSA 1982 page 27).

Hope this helps.

[grey_green_acorn]

Apologies - fading eyesight!

54Bty is correct - I quoted the collar badge NSNs from COSA 1982

Officers Cap Badge in COSA 1984 page 27 is 8455 99 130 3737 and therefore has not changed

[Alan O]

Many thanks. It is a lugged officers badge as I thought. Chris - you may wnat to change your refernce accordingly.

Alan

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Many thanks. It is a lugged officers badge as I thought. Chris - you may wnat to change your refernce accordingly.

Alan

Hi Alan,

Yep - done it.

Regards

Chris