Royal Leicestershire Regt - unusual badges?

[peter4447]

Having purchased this photo recently as it has a Bandmaster in it, I thought it might be of interest to the membership. This is possibly the SNCO's of a Territorial Battalion photographed in the 1930's but what I find interesting are the collar badges of the RSM which appear almost identical to the cap badge and the rank badge on the cuff of the NCO sat second from left which does not appear to be the normal crown in the wreath.
Peter

Sorry if I have caused any confusion but have just managed to get a better scan.
I can now confirm that the cuff badge of the NCO sat 2nd left does in fact have a crown in the centre whilst the RSM's bronze collar badges are the normal pattern but with a scroll beneath.

[2747andy]

The Regimental Sergeant Major is wearing officers badges which is common practice for WO1s and the Quartermaster Sergeant's (WO2) badges look normal, the crown on its own would be a WO3 or Platoon Sergeant Major.

Andy

[peter4447]

Thanks Andy.
Peter

[Deejayuu]

Hi Peter,
lovely photograph you have here. Couple of observations if i may. Firstly the badge has a scroll of over the Royal Tiger. Only the OTC and the regulars wore a badge like this with scroll over the Tiger. I do not beleive this is an OTC photograph. The second point would relate to the title. The Leicesters were give their Royal Charter after WWII i think in 1947 when they became `The Royal Leicestershire Regiment`. Prior to this they were known as simply `Th Leicestershire Regiment`.
Keep smiling, Dave

[Alan O]

Dave is slightly wrong here as the TF wore the Regular badge after 1917 so this could be a TA photo. The scrolless tiger went from 1908 to 1917 when all TF Bns were granted the Regular honours although I am sure some old sweats kept the old design.

The 1908 pattern belts, collar badges and the medal ribbons would make it post WW1 possibly up to the mid 1930s.

Alan

[peter4447]

Thank you for the observations Gents. The details under the re-scan I did are far better and I can now confirm the medals being worn are 14-18 Trios and Pairs and in two cases (Territorial) Efficiency Medals - this is the medal that superseded the Volunteer and Special Reserve Long Service and TEF medals. In addition brass badges are worn on the epaulettes and it is just possible to make out a letter T on one of them.
Peter

[Deejayuu]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Dave is slightly wrong here as the TF wore the Regular badge after 1917 so this could be a TA photo. The scrolless tiger went from 1908 to 1917 when all TF Bns were granted the Regular honours although I am sure some old sweats kept the old design.

The 1908 pattern belts, collar badges and the medal ribbons would make it post WW1 possibly up to the mid 1930s.

Alan

Hi Alan,
You now have me confused. Looking through K&K vol 2 covering post 1920 badges there are many TF badges without battle honours, Leicesters being one of them (kk1714) but other included are the Lincs, Lancs fusiliers, Gloucesters, East Lancs, South lancs, Dorsets, Essex, Northamptons. Assuming the change in the badge design was authorised officially at the same time as the rules for battle honours why would the still be listed in K&K vol 2?
Cheers, Dave

[Alan O]

Dave,

K&K is not accurate here. The Official order authorising the removal of balnk scolls and the wearing of Regular pattern badges by the TF was done in 1917. KLR has the number of the AO that directed this.

While King included the blank badges in Vol 2, which is supposed to be post WW1, this is not strictly correct.

Alan

[peter4447]

Hi Gents
Hope this helps.
The T on the epualette badge is just visible. Cap badge with scroll above.
Regards
Peter

[Alan O]

Yes he is indeed TF.

Alan

[Deejayuu]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Dave,

K&K is not accurate here. The Official order authorising the removal of balnk scolls and the wearing of Regular pattern badges by the TF was done in 1917. KLR has the number of the AO that directed this.

While King included the blank badges in Vol 2, which is supposed to be post WW1, this is not strictly correct.

Alan

Hi Alan,
i will go to the end of our street! I knew that there were some discrepancies in K&K but did not think something like this could slip through the net. You learn something every day. Thank you for taking the time to explain, very much appreciated.
Kind regards, Dave

[peter4447]

The Leicesters Museum have kindly identified the Bandmaster for me as Paul Frederick Britcher who was definately serving with the 4th TA Battalion 1935-1937.
Peter