Victorian Helmet Plate from Shako

[AVI]

Can anybody shed some light on this helmet plate and/or point me in the right direction?
What was the Royal Canadian Militia Regiment and was it, by any chance, part of the Royal Canadian Regiment family tree?

[servicepub]

Hi Alex
As you know the RCR claim their parentage from the Cdn Infantry School Corps (I know that I am not getting the exact name right but I am 5000km from my files). The Infantry School dated from the 1880s I believe, by which time the shako had been replaced by the home service helmet.
I don't believe that there is any direct line from this unit to the CISC, therefore, none to the RCR.
Please let me know if the shako is for sale.
Cheers,
Clive

[regimentalrogue]

It's not from the family tree of The RCR.

Regimental Timeline (Caution for those on dial-up connections, this link is to 1.1 Mb graphic depicting the official lineage and timeline of The RCR.)


The "Royal Canadian Militia Regiment" doesn't show up in either Stewart's Concise Lineages or the archives pages from Regiments.org.

[servicepub]

Michael,
Where are the achived pages for Regiments.org?
Clive

[Joe C]

Not sure if you're looking for pages archived on that site or just old copies of that sites pages. If it's the later then here are some from the Way Back Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://regiments.org

[regimentalrogue]

The Regiment.org site was archived as a "chm" file, which I believe is a Windows help file format - Regiments.chm. I was directed to an online copy some time ago.

If you can't find a copy on line, let me know and when I get back from work tonight I'll upload a copy and send a link.

Mike

[Joe C]

Update: post removed as link didn't work. Don't want to confuse matters.

[Bill A]

Mike, The RCR timeline is a succinct and informative summary for a overview of the history of the regiment. Nice resource, especially for the recent (last 10 years) ops. Thanks.

[regimentalrogue]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Mike, The RCR timeline is a succinct and informative summary for a overview of the history of the regiment. Nice resource, especially for the recent (last 10 years) ops. Thanks.

Bill, thank you. It took a surprising amount of work to dig out the details of some of the changes over the history of the Regiment. It was the first comprehensive attempt to chart the entire regimental history.

[regimentalrogue]

This should work for the Regiments.org "chm" file. To save "Right-Click" and "Save Target As ..."

Note that it's 28 Meg file, you might want to do this on a high-speed connection.

http://regimentalrogue.com/sharefiles2/regiments.chm

Hopefully the website will be back on line one day soon and its maintenance and updates can continue.

[AVI]

Clive
I took that photo during a visit to the War Museum last year. Don't suppose it's for sale, sorry.

Mike
I'm one of the unfortunate few on dial-up. What a regression from fiber optics but that's life in the boonies.

OK - so it's not part of the RCR family tree but is there any record of this regiment? What was the Royal Canadian Militia Regiment that apparently has been lost in history, and why does it have a helmet plate that should have/could have been that adopted by the RCR?

My interest in this regiment is generated by the script cipher (my spellcheck repeatedly corrects cypher. Which spelling is correct up here?) because I'm convinced that the RCR block VRI cypher is incorrect and an aesthetic abhorrent.

And, my God, you guys jump around from forum to forum! I've only discovered this one, and the terrific one on German equipment, thanks to a posting on Canadiansoldiers.

Alex

[AVI]

Originally Posted by servicepub

Hi Alex
Please let me know if the shako is for sale.
Clive

Clive, Sorry, the photo was taken last year in the War Museum.

Mike
I'm one of the unfortunate ones on dial-up - such is life in the boonies.

My interest in the Royal Canadian Militia Regiment which appears to have been lost in history, is generated by its helmet plate with the Victorian script cipher which I personally believe should be correct for the RCR VRI cipher (got tired of my spellcheck constantly correcting cypher. Which spelling is correct up here?)
and not the current, block-lettered design that follows none of the accepted practices of correct lettering and font design.

A corporation's image is reflected in the design of its logo which is why companies go to great expense to create logos. Shouldn't the Regiment adhere to standards of excellence in graphic design as well?

Anyway, what was the Royal Canadian Militia Regiment and why did it disappear into anonymity? The design of its helmet plate is one that might easily have been adapted for use in the fledgling Royal Canadian Regiment.

I'm still curious.
Alex

[regimentalrogue]

Even if the use of block letters in the cypher on RCR badges may not have been correct by traditional presentation, it has been in use in one form or anther since 1894. The same can be said for the use of "VRI" over "VR". Trying to change either now would be a Sisyphean task.

In my opinion, if there's any current day problem with the badges of The RCR, it's that they form a "cyptic" brand. None of the badges (8-pointed star with VRI, beaver collar badge with "Pro Patria", or the cypher of "VRI" and crown) are self-explanatory to members of the public or anyone else. By comparison, the cap badges of both the PPCLI and the R22eR include the regimental name. In a modern "branding" analysis, the Regiment has a greater brand recognition challenge than whether the VRI is script or block lettering.

Because of this, I support an ongoing initiative to change to a single blazer crest of the full cypher with the regimental title banner beneath the VRI and crown (and retire the beaver and badge crests that are seldom used these days anyway and continue the cryptic presentation of regimental symbols.) It remains to be seen if the Regimental Executive is going to agree to make that change.

[AVI]

You're absolutely correct, Mike. In the decades I lived in the US I'd forgotten how the culture of the Canadian Army is so resistant to change. I'm also in agreement that trying to change either the block letters or the VRI is virtually impossible. The culture has first to change.

My personal theory is that the RCR Victorian Cypher was sketched out on a napkin one evening at the Officers' Mess and whoever did the design for the casting did a literal translation of the sketch. So it became a comedy of errors. Now, I don't have a problem with sketches done on the backs of napkins - many a fine airplane design started out as a sketch on the back of a napkin - the P-51 Mustang, for example, but the sketch was refined before the airplane went into production. -

And, yes, the Regiment has a branding challenge. There's nothing, for example, "Canadian", in the cap badge or logo of the Royal Canadian Regiment. There are a few simple ways to change this, but change is change ...
The helmet plate in the photo at the beginning of this post is an excellent example where the regiment's name, like those of the PPCLI and VanDoos, is imprinted on the badge. There's no mistaking the regiment. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with our Regiment.

If the Regimental Committee does decide to go with a one-size-fits-all blazer crest, let's hope somebody sane takes the opportunity to commission a totally superb graphic design that is worthy of the Regiment's image. Companies go to great expense to create logo designs that symbolize company image. So should the Regiment.

Lousy art is lousy art. Great art creates a lasting impression.

Let's hope they take the opportunity to create a totally identifiable and eye-appealing design that will be good for the next thousand years.
You've got to admit that the script Victorian cipher, the VRI on the 1894 shoulder titles, is a wonderful example of excellent design elements.

Change comes slowly.
Alex

[Seathanaich]

. . . the Canadian flag should consist of the word "CANADA" in white letters on a red square. Thankfully it doesn't, and as a result the central design of our flag is not only instantly recognisable and beloved by the only people for whom that should be the case (Canadians), it's also fairly well-known beyond our borders, for a country of only 35 million people.

The South Nottinghamshire Hussars have one of the most striking British Yeomanry cap badges: a nicely balanced acorn and oak leaf. No words, no banners, no crown. I have a hell of a lot of badges, and when I look at them in groups, I'm often drawn to the designs like the South Notts Hussars that are simple, clean, and bold; in other words, those that effectively demonstrate the principles of good heraldry. Which is good, because if I designed badges myself they'd no doubt be too busy; covered in motto banners and floral wreaths - all that good stuff that we are used to in this hobby.

The reality is that, outside of the people in them, almost nobody recognises the insignia of military units - even other people in the military. The RCR does not have a "branding" disadvantage in relation to the PPCLI or anyone else; indeed, their classic badge design's only disadvantage is that, for us collectors, it's sometimes tricky to figure out when exactly a particular badge was probably worn. Canadian military insignia will never be widely recognisable among the Canadian public, other than perhaps the logo of the CF itself. And maybe that's not a bad thing.