5th Lancers Hat badge?

[judge10111]

Sadly, this 5th Lancers badge is damaged, but I was wondering if it was a hat badge? I know the Lancers were active in the Anglo-Boer War (Elandslaagte) but is the damaged badge in question from that period or later? Thanks for the input.

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by judge10111

Sadly, this 5th Lancers badge is damaged, but I was wondering if it was a hat badge? I know the Lancers were active in the Anglo-Boer War (Elandslaagte) but is the damaged badge in question from that period or later? Thanks for the input.

It is a 5th Royal Irish Lancer pattern Cap badge with the lance's sadley missing .Looking @ the rear will confirm its Genuine or not.To that end could you please put a pic of the rear of the badge on this thread.

3748 Hussar

[judge10111]

Thanks, will do.

[irishhorse]

Can't make out if there are any holes on the back of the 5. I have a genuine one with a small hole at the top and one at the bottom of the 5. Lugs would suggest an early badge, so Boer war would be about right.

[John Mulcahy]

A cap badge with loops would date from before c. 1902.

This regiment's forage cap badges are a real minefield in my opinion.

The forage cap badge of the 5th Lancers has been extensively copied. There are two designs of pennant found on genuine badges, a long narrow type and more often a shorter wider design. The regiment shows a wide number of forage cap variations.

The following variations are known in genuine other rank badges.

1. Bi-metal pennants, wm 5, die struck. loop fitting
2. Bi-metal pennants, brass 5, die struck. loop fitting
3. All brass, die struck slider
4. Bi-metal pennants, wm 5, cast, slider
5. Bi-metal pennants, wm 5, die-struck slider
6. brass pennants, wm 5, die struck, slider

What to look for in genuine badges.

Die Struck badges
1. Backs should never be solid, neither whole badge nor just pennants.
2. Sweat holes are often present, rectangular behind pennants and
rectangular (or circular) behind the five.
3. Badges with good provenance are known without any sweat
holes, in these instances the WM is often inserted into the badge
to be flush with the brass elements. Also those badges without
sweat holes generally show all of these other traits.
4. Generally, lances should not be seen to cross when view from the
front. (see later).
5. Avoid the usual bright yellow brass of re-strikes.
6. Some genuine badges have very weak strikes.

On the positive side this badge does not show the lances crossing, however normally I would expect to see two rectangular sweat holes on a 5th Lancers badge with loops, one on the top of the 5 and one on the side just above the right hand lance (as viewed)

I personally would be suspicious of this badge if there is a lack of sweat holes


Regarding point 4.

Anecdotally badges where the lances can be seen to cross when viewed from the front are considered fakes. Indeed the illustration from the Gaunt Catalogue c. 1910 shows that the lances cannot be seen to cross. However the illustration of the Officer’s badge in Dress Regulations for the Army 1901 shows the lances to cross. Suffice to say that obvious fakes of O/R badges show the lances crossing whereas the good ones all appear to lack this feature.

John