London Badge & Button Co Ltd Unofficial Anodised Commissions

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

As I try to unravel the subject of anodise badges of the British Army I fear that some of our suspicions have been found to be correct.

The London Badge and Button Company was founded in 1973 see:

http://www.kellysearch.co.uk/gb-company-900769428.html

The sliders from this comany are quite distinctive being quite smooth with a even curve to the end, a pretty constant thickness of approx. 5.85 mm, a depth of approx 1.58 mm but most of all has a mark approx. 4 mm from the slider bend.

I have created a new web page to show three unofficial commissions of these badges that I have in my collection.

CLICK ON EACH IMAGE TO ENLARGE IT AND SEE THE COMMENT APPLIED TO IT.

I have started the page with a slider taken from the Duke of Wellingtons Regiment which is marked with the company name and is a genuine badge.

The image next to it is a close up of the slider mark from another badge which has a more pronounced definition.

ALL BADGES BY THIS COMPANY APPEAR TO HAVE THIS MARK TO A GREATER OR LESSER DEGREE.

These are the badges that I have in my collection with the dates that that the units stopped being active:

Norfolk Yeomanry - 1961
Royal Ulster Rifles - 1968
South Lancashire Regiment - 1958

Note that all three dates are pre the date of 1973 when the company started trading which pretty much proves their status of unofficial commissions.

Web page showing these badges is at:

http://picasaweb.google.com/hagwalth...y=hmPyWkHtBrs#

Remember to click on the images for more commentary.

I was hoping to keep this information for future publication but am releasing it now to possibly save collectors parting with hard earned money aquiring something they may not really want.

If anyone has other examples that they may like to add please to to me at:

hagwalther AT gmail DOT com

Please no PM's as I find they system very restrictive.

Regards

Chris

[Alan O]

Chris,

All my LB&B marked badges have the same crimp mark in the slider. However my SLancs and RUR are both Smith & Wright with different sliders. My Norfolk Yeo is Firmin and the size ratio between the crown and EIIR is completely different!

Alan

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Chris,

All my LB&B marked badges have the same crimp mark in the slider. However my SLancs and RUR are both Smith & Wright with different sliders. My Norfolk Yeo is Firmin and the size ratio between the crown and EIIR is completely different!

Alan

Hi Alan,

Sounds like yours are all OK.

Wish I had them!!!

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Chris,

All my LB&B marked badges have the same crimp mark in the slider. However my SLancs and RUR are both Smith & Wright with different sliders. My Norfolk Yeo is Firmin and the size ratio between the crown and EIIR is completely different!

Alan

It is important to realize that the badges that I have described are unofficial commissions by the London Badge & Button Co Ltd that were made after said units were no longer active. This is totally different to saying that all badges of these units were only ever made as unofficial commissions. Alan has in his collection examples by different manufacturers which are no doubt genuine items from the correct time period.

Luckily for me I picked these three up from an antique shop for just over one pound each but I do fear that these unofficial commissisons are selling for 25 pounds plus on eBay and the like.

The other thing of note is that I am going to continue to call these unofficial commissions as when made they were probably not intended to defraud anyone. At a later date this may have occured of course but they were not initially made as out and out fakes like the two Wiltshire badges just sold on eBay. These were made by die stamping which never was a manufacturing technique using in making anodised badges which was EXTENSIVELY die forging. They also therfore never came from an official MoD contractor and had a LB&B slider added. They also had incorrect maker marks stamped into this LB&B slider to add to the list of fake procedures added in making these items.

I will also put some better scans on the page this evening of a higher resolution.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

I have put larger resolutions of the badges on the web page.

To get the best out of them now click on the image you wish to see. It will open up on it's own page and the comment that I have added will be shown.

If you wish to see the an area of the badge in a magnified mode then click on the icon on the right of the image frame that has a magnifying glass and a '+'.

Follow the instructions re: backlighted in yellow.

Regards

Chris

[Alan O]

Chris,

Yours matches the dimensions shown in K&K (although I believe that they show the metal version). Mine has a larger crown and not all of the EIIR is voided.

Mine could well the Hampton Court Wardens badge though I have never heard of it before. Picture to follow.

Alan

[54Bty]

All of these came to me as worn by a member of 284th (Norfolk Yeomanry) Light Anti Aircraft Regiment R.A., (T.A.), before the amalgamation in 1961.

[ukbrits]

Hi Guys,
Heres my offerring it's a nice early one made by Smith & Wright.I have not seen these small a/a badges in any book can any Yeomanry collectors confirm this was worn by the Norfolk Yeomanry.Maybe a beret badge?

[ukbrits]

Or is it indeed the Hampton Court Wardens cap badge....bit of a mystery or is it a maze??

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

All of these came to me as worn by a member of 284th (Norfolk Yeomanry) Light Anti Aircraft Regiment R.A., (T.A.), before the amalgamation in 1961.

Hi 54Bty,

The one marked HW TIMMINGS is identical to mine except mine has no maker mark to the slider. Both have the same die flaw to the upper arm of the 'E' which implies that they came from the same die.

Also, both sliders look very similar if not the same from the images given.

This has thrown the cat into the pidgeons here...

Can anyone answer this?

Regards

Chris

[bess55]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi 54Bty,

The one marked HW TIMMINGS is identical to mine except mine has no maker mark to the slider. Both have the same die flaw to the upper arm of the 'E' which implies that they came from the same die.

Also, both sliders look very similar if not the same from the images given.

This has thrown the cat into the pidgeons here...

Can anyone answer this?

Regards

Chris

Hi gents,
I too have both anodised versions of this badge and did often wonder if one was some sort of 'commissionaires' badge or museum wardens badge or similar. However if 54bty is happy with the two varying designs, then I would be too. Have never heard of the Hampton Court wardens badge. I suppose its possible that they were issued to various types of organisations as well as military, the design after all is fairly generic and 'Royal' looking.

I dont recall the makers names on the ones I have, will post when I get 5 mins for interests sake.

Regards to all

Bess

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

All of these came to me as worn by a member of 284th (Norfolk Yeomanry) Light Anti Aircraft Regiment R.A., (T.A.), before the amalgamation in 1961.

Those are the same as my ones. My metal one is also unmarked. The a/a one if Firmin made.

Alan

[54Bty]

If the badge in this link is the Hampton Court Wardens badge, then we all have one of each. It also means I will have to write a letter asking for an explanation to the ones I have in the above post.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hp?albumid=172

Does anyone have more information on the HCW badge or Uniform?

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

I think we are missing the point here with the Timings marked badge and mine which I have labelled an unofficial commission by LB&B.

Both badges are the same with the both coming from the same die (the die flaw proves this) and the sliders being identical except one is marked H W TIMMINGS B'HAM .

As this TIMMINS badge has come from impecable providence this raised a very important issue.

In my notes I have absolutely no historical information on H W TIMMINGS B'HAM whatsoever. I would like any timeline information that members would have but from what I can see he it looks as if H W TIMMINGS B'HAM became the LONDON BADGE & BUTTON CO LTD. Either that or the LB&B in 1973 took over TIMMINGS and continued using their dies and sliders applying their mark to some of their badges and leaving others blank for some reason - commissioned items perhaps.

From what I can see here I believe the above to be more than plausable but I need others to think this through too.

Let me know what you think!!!

Regards

Chris