Para light bulb question

[Luc]

Guys,
Has the "light bulb" qualifiaction badge for non-regular para trained troops been abolished after WWII for some time? The reason for asking is that I have purchased a P'49 BD blouse which sports: Lt pips, cloth Royal Artillery shoulder titles, cloth Pegasus formation signs and para wings....
I don't believe guns were dropped by parachute at that time so why the wings and not the light bulb?

[jeep]

Luc. The 'light bulb' was still going strong in the 80's and is the badge of a qualified parachutist, regular or otherwise, who has not gone through the rigours of 'P' Company selection, and therefore not served with an airborne unit. Not too clued up on uniforms, but the RA do have para units such as 7 RHA and 29 Commando Regt and I believe other 'pure' RA airborne units did exist post WW2 but have long been disbanded.

[badjez]

Hi,
There were also a number of TA Gunner units i.e. The Cambridgeshire Regt's reincarnation as 629 Regt, RA TA... of course, they used nothing larger than mortars. In the Royal Anglian Regt museum at Bassingbourne are Cambs insignia which includes a DZ patch of Dark blue & Cambridge blue. Presumably the '49 pattern BD mentioned doesn't have this patch.
Regards, Stephen.

[Luc]

Thanks for your answers! This the blouse in question:



As you will see hopefully is that all insignia are of WWII pattern.

I see 7RHA was raised in 1961, was P'49 still being worn at that time?

[Sonofacqms]

I was not aware that the Royal Anglians had transferred their museum from IWM Duxford to Bassingbourn, when did this happen? It's been a long time since I visited the Museum at Duxford and may have missed the event.

[tynesideirish]

Originally Posted by jeep

Luc. The 'light bulb' was still going strong in the 80's and is the badge of a qualified parachutist, regular or otherwise, who has not gone through the rigours of 'P' Company selection, and therefore not served with an airborne unit.

Sorry Jeep but this is a falsehood. The only Parachute trained troops who do not have to undergo and pass P-Coy are ones with an equivalent arduous Selection process. SAS, Commando, SPAG etc. Everyone else has to pass P-Coy.
Those serving with an ACTIVE Parachute unit get to wear the full wings and can retain these for the rest of their career regardless of unit (unless they refuse to jump when ordered).
Everyone else wears the Lightbulb.

LUC: Guns have been dropped since 1942. Anyone serving in one of the Regular or TA Parachute Regiments RA would be entitled to full wings if qualified. Your Jacket is probably 33 Parachute Light Regiment RA.

[Alan O]

There is a difference between theory in practice here.

In theory anyone who attends the Jump Course only gets a light bulb when they pass. Those serving in a Para role get the full wings. In practice evryone wears full wings. I know several people who have done the jumps course but never served with 5AB/16AA/264/RM etc. They all wear full wings even though strictly they should not (as they have passed PCoy).

Only those who have passed PCoy (or equivalent course)can attend Jumps Cse. BUT there are exceptions. In the old days (1970s) RMAS cadets could attend I I know a very old Lt Col with the Light Bulb on his Mess kit from RMAS days. I also know of one Major who attended a jumps cse but had not completed a selection course. He was able to load himself on the course due to his job at the time despite never having passed any selection. The fact that it is so difficult to get on Jumps cse (as there are so few) means that it is very difficult to get on one unless you are serving with the right unit.

In summary Light bulbs are very rare. It is possible to get Para trained without passing a cse but again it is very rare.

Alan

[Luc]

Originally Posted by tynesideirish

Guns have been dropped since 1942.

Thanks! That clears up a few things.

[TrevorL]

HI everyone.
I recognise the badges. I served with the 33 Airborne Rgt RA in 1948/9. These are the badges that we wore. The Pegasus patches were worn with the parachute wings only after passing out from the parachute course (mine was demob group no 121, the last National Service demob group to be allowed on the Para course).
Hope that helps, TrevorL

[Luc]

Thanks Trevor, good to have this confirmed by a vet.

[Tourist]

1. To qualify for wings:

a. Complete P Company or equivelent arm of service course* - http://www2.army.mod.uk/para/pegasus_p_company.htm

b. and, complete 'Basic Parachute Course' (BPC) at No. 1 PTS, RAF Brize Norton - http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbrizenorton/aboutus/pts.cfm


2. To qualify for 'Lightbulb' it is necesary only to complete the 'Basic Parachute Course'.^


3. Special Forces wings:

a. If already BPC qualified the GS wings are replaced with the appropriate Regimental wing (SAS/SBS).

b. If not BPC qualified attendance on a BPC is required.

c. P Coy, or equivelent, is not required on top of SF training.

d. SF wings do not denote Military Freefall (MFF) training, only that the wearer is BPC qualified.


notes:

* RAF and Royal Navy/Royal Marines run their own.
^ I remember around half a dozen chaps wearing the lightbulb.

i. An RAOC ATO I served with was one of the chaps that learned all about parachuting in the back of an aircraft on his way to deal with suspected explosive devices on the QE2 in mid Atlantic. After the event he was allowed to wear wings.

ii. This comes under the heading of heresay but, from a reliable source: There was a while back some moaning by the Toms at 16AAB that some officers required for specialist roles have had a VERY easy time on P Coy - verging almost on non-participation.

[Alan O]

Having been on PCoy with the OC (Designate) of the Para Sig Sqn (who HAD to be Para Trained ffor his job) I can reassure you that he fully particiapted! the Para Regt Officers had an equally hard time. there was certainly no coasting from any of the Officers at all as it made no difference to the P Coy Staff who you were or what job you were going to. P Coy was 'brutal' in that repsect, there was a standard and if you did not meet it then you failed no matter who you were or what your circumstances were.

[Tourist]

Alan, as I said heresay.

I'll PM you with the detail.

[tynesideirish]

Originally Posted by Tourist

2. To qualify for 'Lightbulb' it is necesary only to complete the 'Basic Parachute Course'.

i. An RAOC ATO I served with was one of the chaps that learned all about parachuting in the back of an aircraft on his way to deal with suspected explosive devices on the QE2 in mid Atlantic. After the event he was allowed to wear wings.

ii. This comes under the heading of heresay but, from a reliable source: There was a while back some moaning by the Toms at 16AAB that some officers required for specialist roles have had a VERY easy time on P Coy - verging almost on non-participation.

AAAgh! This lightbulb stuff is rubbish. As stated, it is possible to get your wings without doing P-Coy, but no one gets to just go to Brize and do the Jump course earning the lightbulb. This is just a stupid rumour passed around by uninformed people. Please stop spreading this crap.

The RAOC Capt Rob Williams was awarded his wings because it was classed as an operational Combat jump. He had already done 3 static line jumps prior to his call out and thus received further Parachute instruction at Abingdon at 1230 hrs and at 2045 hrs he was jumping onto the QE2. The other members of the team where 2 RM's a Lt and a Cpl and an SAS SSgt. ALL expert Terrorist EOD trained ATO's.

I attended the AA P-Coy and no one get's off easy. The Officer's especially. The PARA Regt Officers have to do the AA course as it is 6 weeks long ending in test week and not just the test week the OR's get as week 11 (as was) part of the normal recruit training.

[Tourist]

Double aagh!

So, I did not see what I saw regarding the lightbulbs. Thank you for telling me.

The lightbulb also used to be on the qualifications poster that appeared in recruiting offices around the country and on some Company Notices Boards around the British Army. At my last job, based at but not part of JHQ, there were a few guys in the Mess that had the lightbulb both on wooly pully and mess dress. The Army Dress Committee still stands by the qualification too.

As stated, it is possible to get your wings without doing P-Coy,

Ok, possible but is it probable? My friends at 3 Para would choke.

but no one gets to just go to Brize and do the Jump course earning the lightbulb.

I don't think people would go around sewing badges onto their kit because they felt like it. I skydive, sometimes at Weston, and I know some of the PJI's. Like all things in life it depends on who you know as much as anything when you want to do the 'shiny courses'.

Given, one combat jump is an acknowledged way of earning wings. But we still used to take the mickey. After the affair of the QE2 a dedicated para trained AT[O] team was put together (421 EOD Coy) mainly based out of DLSA. Or as we used to call it, the Underwater Knife Fighting EOD Display Team.

As for working with IED's, lets say I was that stacker.