Cavalry Badge ID - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

natal01 · #1 21-10-08, 08:31 AM

Hi,
Can anyone help with identifying the badges on the attached pics ? The one might be an OTC , but I can't find it in Kipling and King. The other may be in some way related to the 7th Hussars as the cypher is similar, but I'm guessing.
Also are they ok or are they one of the many fakes ?

#2 21-10-08, 09:23 AM

The Bays badge is the NCOs arm badge pre 1950 the 7th could be a officers collars badge

peter

wright241 · #3 21-10-08, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natal01

Hi,
Can anyone help with identifying the badges on the attached pics ? The one might be an OTC , but I can't find it in Kipling and King. The other may be in some way related to the 7th Hussars as the cypher is similar, but I'm guessing.
Also are they ok or are they one of the many fakes ?

Howard is "The Bays man" and I am sure he can tell you more than I can.
The 1st one is a Bay's Armbadge and the 2nd one appears to relate to
the 7th Queens Own Hussars - age-of-use details will have to come
from someone else.
I have a number of 7QOH - but not this one - from the type of crown,
I would suggest that is an "early" collar.
Although they both look ok to me... Howard is the expert on the Bays.
I don't have this particular armbadge anyway against which to compare it
with. david

Cardiffbloke · #4 21-10-08, 10:33 AM

Peter and David are correct... a White Metal Bays Arm Badge probably late 40's early 50's. As for the other badge, no idea!

natal01 · #5 23-10-08, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the input. I have been doing a little more delving and and have found a slim volume titled, Cavalry and Yeomanry badges of the British Army 1914 by F Wilkinson. I shows the Bays badge as a 2nd Dragoon Guards Senior NCOs sleeve badge. It also shows a very similar badge to the 7th Hussars badge ( but with the Imperial Crown) also as a Senior NCOs sleeve badge. I guess that the one I have is the Victorian version. All of this helped to ID the bullion wire badge on the attached pic.

fougasse1940 · #6 25-10-08, 11:39 AM

Both Seaman and Linaker/Dine state that the 7th arm badge came into use early 20th century, this makes the QVC crown badge somewhat of a mystery.
Also all 7th arm badges seem to have lugs north-south.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

wright241 · #7 25-10-08, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natal01

Hi,
Can anyone help with identifying the badges on the attached pics ? The one might be an OTC , but I can't find it in Kipling and King. The other may be in some way related to the 7th Hussars as the cypher is similar, but I'm guessing.
Also are they ok or are they one of the many fakes ?

What is the height of that 7th Hussars badge?
Maybe one of the Cavalry collectors out there has a pre-1902 collar
which (dimensions wise) might help. I don't.

natal01 · #8 26-10-08, 08:16 AM

I have got out the old measuring implements and the Hussars badge is 39mm ( top to bottom) and 26mm wide. It weight 4.7gms. That might sound a little odd that I weigh badges, but once I bought a couple of nice looking Kings Colonial badges on an auction , including a duplicate of one that I already had. The auction badge was 15% lighter than my example and this was all I needed to convert a nagging doubt into a firm realisation that I had acquired a few duds. It is very sad that that we have to get so "picky" ( paranoid ? ) , but given the money one is asked to pay for badges, it is worth a little in-depth investigation before parting with your hard earned cash.

wright241 · #9 27-10-08, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natal01

I have got out the old measuring implements and the Hussars badge is 39mm ( top to bottom) and 26mm wide. It weight 4.7gms. That might sound a little odd that I weigh badges, but once I bought a couple of nice looking Kings Colonial badges on an auction , including a duplicate of one that I already had. The auction badge was 15% lighter than my example and this was all I needed to convert a nagging doubt into a firm realisation that I had acquired a few duds. It is very sad that that we have to get so "picky" ( paranoid ? ) , but given the money one is asked to pay for badges, it is worth a little in-depth investigation before parting with your hard earned cash.

I am not a cavalry expert, but - as already mentioned - L&D don't mention this armbadge as having ever been produced with this type of crown. They could be wrong of course - but this seems unlikely.
More interesting to me are your comments about the KC badges...
Which ones are you talking about with regard to weight and what is the weight? I have a few that are currently in the "swear box" - this might be a whole new way of collecting.

natal01 · #10 27-10-08, 06:08 AM

I have the KC American and Asian badges and was trying to complete the series. So when three appeared on a local auction , I had a go , even though I already had the Asian one. When I received them , they all looked fine from the front ( as the better made old ones do) , but I find that the lugs generally give them away. They often have rather a new coppery look and the brazing also has this look. I worked on the assumption that I was looking at a pretty small unit which was only in place for a relatively short time , so it would be fair to assume that only one manufacturer was used and so the badges produced would be made using the same alloys etc and would thus be fairly similar in weight. To do this weighing you need a jewellars scale ( I have a digital version- quite pricy, but could pay for itself ). You naturally also need a known , trusted example to compare it to, and then you need to decide what tolerance is acceptable. In this case 15% lighter , when added to the doubtful lugs, 'kicked it into touch' as far as I was concerned. I have long thought that all badge books are useless when it comes to knowing whether you have a fake badge or not because of a total lack of information other than what it looks like and what metals it is made of. The fakers dont really have to work too hard !