The Modern Modern Army

[BILL DUGGAN]

This has little to do with badges (just about the wearers of badges)

More specifically how the Army has changed over the years.

At the recent Bristol Harbourside Festival I saw a 'Kape' (Keeping the Army in the Public Eye) team.

Oh how the army has changed since my days forty years ago.

One very smart soldier seemed to have his 'dreadlocks' tied up in a bun at the back of his head.

Another very young female gunner was one of the prettiest girls I've ever seen in uniform.

The chap talking to her and the civilian girl was a R.E.M.E. Sargeant. (back to the camera)

All very smart soldiers ; but oh how the army has changed since I first tripped around a drill square.

[REMEVMBEA1]

The thing that sticks out for me when I see squaddies today is the way that berets are worn. Do dress regulations not now say that the beret should be worn squarely one and half inches above the eyebrows pulled down to the right and the cap badge over the left eye? A better way of describing the way lots are worn now would be "as a Andy Capp with the badge somewhere over the left ear.

[2747andy]

Bill,

I think the Soldier (Squaddie is an awful term, a bit like calling Policemen Pigs!) with dreadlocks is a female too!

Please don't go down the beret road again, we've had it all before and as long as they were them, I don't see the problem!

Best regards

Andy

[LONGSHANKS]

Would "Tommy" be a better description?......... That was funny though REMEVMBEA1
"as a Andy Capp with the badge somewhere over the left ear"......

[badger123]

If thats a female with the dreadlocks and the muscles bursting out of her shirt, I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of her!!!!!

Ivan

[oc14]

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

The thing that sticks out for me when I see squaddies today is the way that berets are worn. Do dress regulations not now say that the beret should be worn squarely one and half inches above the eyebrows pulled down to the right and the cap badge over the left eye? A better way of describing the way lots are worn now would be "as a Andy Capp with the badge somewhere over the left ear.

Every generation of soldiers adopts the fashion of wearing berets in the style of the moment. When I joined (1976) wearing berets in the so called "tankie style" (pulled down at both sides with the cap badge worn centrally) was all the rage, some old and bold continued with this style until the 1980s. I'm with Andy on this one, unless the way the beret is worn impacts on a soldier's ability to perform his or her core function then so what - it is actually the only way a soldier can show their individuality when in uniform.
By the way, the term KAPE went out years ago, they are now Army Information Teams or ART's (Army Recruiting Teams) - some are Combat ARTs others are referred to as Log/Tech Teams depending on the regiments and corps from which the team members are drawn.

Paul L

[ORISKANY]

Originally Posted by oc14

Every generation of soldiers adopts the fashion of wearing berets in the style of the moment. When I joined (1976) wearing berets in the so called "tankie style" (pulled down at both sides with the cap badge worn centrally) was all the rage, some old and bold continued with this style until the 1980s. I'm with Andy on this one, unless the way the beret is worn impacts on a soldier's ability to perform his or her core function then so what - it is actually the only way a soldier can show their individuality when in uniform.
By the way, the term KAPE went out years ago, they are now Army Information Teams or ART's (Army Recruiting Teams) - some are Combat ARTs others are referred to as Log/Tech Teams depending on the regiments and corps from which the team members are drawn.

Paul L

Oh dear, does this mean that Teritorial Army Recruiting Teams are TARTs? These abbreviations can cause real bother. SHAPE was originally to be known as Supreme Headquarters International Territory Europe but it did not seem to be popular!

For goodness sake don't mention berets, everyone has their own theory about how they are to be worn. Last time the subject was discussed it almost came to blows!

[Phil2M]

More to the point, the dreadlocked soldier has a bulge in her trousers, i think?

Phil

[ORISKANY]

Originally Posted by BILL DUGGAN

This has little to do with badges (just about the wearers of badges)

More specifically how the Army has changed over the years.

At the recent Bristol Harbourside Festival I saw a 'Kape' (Keeping the Army in the Public Eye) team.

Oh how the army has changed since my days forty years ago.

One very smart soldier seemed to have his 'dreadlocks' tied up in a bun at the back of his head.

Another very young female gunner was one of the prettiest girls I've ever seen in uniform.

The chap talking to her and the civilian girl was a R.E.M.E. Sargeant. (back to the camera)

All very smart soldiers ; but oh how the army has changed since I first tripped around a drill square.

Caption wanted for image 1 please.

Mine is "In answer to your question guv, it's about this big"

[BILL DUGGAN]

I can assure you lads that the soldier with the 'dreadlocks' is not a female.

A thought that struck me when I came across this bunch of soldiers was "are female private soldiers still called such titles as 'Riflemen','Kingsmen','Guardsmen' etc."

Perhaps "Gunneretta" or "Lance-Bombardinna" might be appropriate ranks of the future.

The mind doth.....

[Charlie585]

That "haircut" defies belief Bill, especially when I remember that we would have the length of our sideburns measured in my day.

We used to have some beefy Dorises when I was in, the sort of bird that could kick start a tank transporter. There were a few honeys as well but they were few and far between them and most of them wore skirts and sat behind desks. (Not to mention that if you went near one, one of the beefy Dorises would have already beaten you to it)

It is a different world we live in and it was changing around the time I came out in 95. The RE's had I believe just got their first female section Commander running a bridge build and it was big news then.

To be fair on that score, if the girls are willing and can do the job then fair play to them.

I know that uniforms these days are a lot more practical but when I think of all the work that used to be put into the attainment of smartness, this generation have it easy. That said, these days they have a lot more important things to worry about.

I visited a working training regiment a few years ago and couldn't help notice how lax discipline and standards of cleanliness had become in the twenty years since that had lapsed since my last visit. Some of the youngsters had what would have been described as an attitude problem that would have been jumped on from a great height years ago.

I watched a documentary last week that featured a platoon on the front line. One of the lads had seemingly had an accident in a sangar with a mini flare, injuring his face in the process. It was laughed off but in my day that would have been classed as a negligent discharge and would have got him a regimental entry and loss of a months pay.

How times have changed indeed!

Ry

[ebro]

Ry,
Do any of these modern changes help build character, discipline or team spirit?
As for your "I remember that we would have the length of our sideburns measured in my day" What sideburns?
Eddie

[Charlie585]

Hi Eddie,

I've got to be honest, the dropping of standards does have me worried, as you rightly imply those standards were there for a reason!

I'm all for treating people as human beings but pandering to slackness in the serious business of soldiering seems to have been taken to a new low.

Bulls**t is something that soldiers can do without but pride and respect for tradition go hand in hand with character and team spirit.

That said, every generation of servicemen will compare the standards of their time with what comes after and justifiably to them, bemone what they see.

Regards

Ry

[2747andy]

I can assure you all that although being in my fourth decade of service, standards have not "Dropped" they have "Changed".... the Ethos remains the same and many serving soldiers would be offended reading some of the above comments, even if some were made "tonge in cheek".. They are giving up life and limb so that you can moan on this Forum!

There are still "Bad Eggs" in all walks of life, we do recruit from society and just look at the state of that in some areas. Don't blame todays servicemen and women, blame the previous generations who have erroded the standards of respect which some of us had for our parents, elders and the police etc! Mind you I still have a problem with Old people, who moan and groan and rattle "Wasn't the same in my day"... wasn't it? (you probably cannot remember)

Andy

[BILL DUGGAN]

I joined the T.A. in 1961 before enlisting as a regular in 1963. (fifty years ago)

Fifty years before that was 1911. Appearances change drastically in such a span of time.

I'll say it again that these soldiers I saw in Bristol where every inch a soldier. regardless of the length of their hair or their sex. A smart looking bunch.

Much smarter than some of the people I soldiered with in the 1960's.