141st RAC (The Buffs) cap badges

[rubicon]

Hello,

In Octobre 1941, the 7th Bn The Buffs was re designed 141st RAC the Buffs. The Commanding Officer whished the Battalion carry on a connection with The Buffs and to retain the Buffs cap badge. It was allowed and the cap badge was made of white metal.
I dont know how the original war time white metal Buffs cap badge was made? die struck? cast?
May be someone knows or has an original cap badge for the 141st RAC to show?
I have enclosed pictures of three white metal cap badges I have got, the cap badge far right with slider stamped J.R. Gaunt is the a modern pattern used by veterans for reunions. The cap badge in the middle is cast made. The first far left is moulded with silver finish. I don't know from which periods they are.
Thanks for any information.
J-F

[Deejayuu]

Hi J-F,
the Buffs were not by themselves when it came to wearing white metal infantry badges whilst being part of the RAC. The RAC boosted the number of regiments by using converted line infantry units. 107th - 116th, 141st-163rd RAC were all TA Infantry battalions converted to the Armoured role. Many of them were allowed to retain their original infantry badge. I am not clear if it was by choice or by order but many if not all wore white metal badges of their parent infantry regiment regardless of what metal the badge was made from originally. There is a paragraph in Andrew Wilsons book `Flamethrower` which describes how the transformation of the brass Buffs badge was undertaken. It was done in the field by the REME who plated the regiments old badge! Whether this was done throoughout the war i could not say but the early badges were plated which means the slider should be the same colour as the main badge. If you ever get the chance to read flamethrower, i have it from an ex 141 RAC sergeant who was at Normandy that whilst the book is quite graphic in terms of the horrors of the Crocodile and Normandy post D-Day, he stated that the details had been sanitised! The book is classed as a work of fiction as the characters are ficticious, however, the events are real and acurate!
I do not think any of the badges you have shown are badges worn by 141 RAC during WWII. The badge on the left looks like one of the quality badges produced by Franklin Mint in their `Infantry Regiments` badge collection. They used artistic license on many occasions making many of the badges appear to be officer quality by plating them to look like silver then amking the schoolboy error of putting sliders on them!!! The one on the right you say was done for the regimental association which i will take your word for as i know nothing about this. The centre one is cast on lugs whereas the badge should be diestruck on a slider.
Hope this helps, Dave.
I have a Franklin Mint Buffs badge somewhere but i am buggered if i can find it. Will keep looking and try and get an image attached.

[rubicon]

Dear Dave,
Thanks a lot for your reply and your interresting information. The modern cap badge in white metal made by Gaunt has been given to me by the Chairman of the 141st RAC veteran association in 2005. I met him at a ceremonie at Crépon for the unveiling of an historical panel (I made) which explains the first flame engagement by the 13 Troop of the 141st RAC which took place at dawn on the 7 June 1944 against a German Battery at Crépon bypassed on D-Day by the 6th Green Howards. Unfortunatly I do not have a copy of the "Flamethrower" book but will manage to get one. I have the official story of the regiment wrote by a captain in 1945-46 and some personnel accounts from veterans and reports.
I agree with you about the two other cap badges which I think are not war time era.
I would be happy to get pictures of good originals cap badges used by this unit which was disbanded in 1945 in Germany.
Best regards.
J-F

[fearnaught]

Hi, I think the slidered badge is 141st RAC, the other is an officers silvered, any period.

[rubicon]

Hello fearnaught,
Thanks for pictures. I cannot make out the cap badge with the slider, Does it made of white metal or does it made of gilding metal which had been plated?
J-F

[fearnaught]

Hi, it's gilding metal quite thinly plated, not chromed.

[kentfallen]

Those with a Buffs interest will want to see these links -

http://www.kentfallen.com/the%20buffs%20pages.html

[lettman]

I came across a dealer at the Birmingham show on 8 June selling a Buffs badge purporting to be their RAC badge: it was plated or chromed and with the slider marked W broadarrow D.

[Alan O]

That is a fake WD mark. I have come across severla of them and it was not used on cap badges but has been used on repro badges.

Alan

[lettman]

Glad I didn't buy it, then -- it was also on a WM King's Own one supposed to be their 107th RAC badge. If it's so obviously fake, what's the rationale or precedent for putting WD on a badge?