KRRC - large & small honours
 

Perhaps one for the KRRC buffs this… a small observation which might be of interest.

I specifically bought badge ‘B’ the other day purely because it appeared to have characteristics I had not noticed before on a KRRC badge (its slider is missing, but that is of no particular consequence here).

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Badge ‘A’ is the regular type (KK 2011), whereas badge ‘B’ (also KK 2011) is slightly different in that the same battle honours set out on the arms of its cross are considerably smaller than those on badge ‘A’.

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The reason for this could of course be attributable to the old ‘maker’s variation’ chestnut, but perhaps it could be something else.

Perhaps badge ‘B’ is an earlier pattern on which the battle honours proved to be too difficult to read or to manufacture to a high standard, and was therefore dropped in favour of badge ‘A’.

Or perhaps the reverse is true: the battle honours on badge ‘A’ were thought to be too large and squashed-looking, so the smaller, better-spaced honours of badge ‘B’ were chosen in preference.

One last observation, which may be of no consquence: badge 'A' has no apostrophe in 'KING'S' within the centre circle, whereas badge 'B' has.

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None of the above theories may be correct of course but, if for no other reason, I thought it might be of interest to see both types together for reference.

Any other theories welcomed, gents.

(Apologies for the dodgy photography).

Regards,

Peter.

IMO, I do think it's down to makers variations when it comes down to details like missing apostrophes, etc. However there are other mysteries such as these two. Are they Militia, are they collars (supposedly not worn) or FSC's but one thing is clear and that's the name change from King's Royal Rifles to KRRC.

Just to confuse things further the only other Kings Royal Rifle(s) without Corps in the title I have are those to the 1st Cadet Battalion both in KC & QVC but I also have a QVC nickel cord boss badge with it!

I think they are FSC badges Keith. As you say collars were not worn by KRR, but when FSCs were introduced almost all regiments used them as the badge (although most LI and Fusilier Regts used bugles and grenades from STs), until larger badges were designed.

Peter,
I too feel that it is nothing more than a Makers Variation! Here is a "LAMBOURNE" example with very small lettering. Sorry about the images, the sunlight is a nightmare (not complaining though!!:D).

Andy

Peter the maker of badge A imo should have moved the battle honours Martinique Talavera up a bit higher on the arm of the cross as it looks odd, or is this the norm

Malc

Keith,

I would agree with Toby here. My limited knowledge of Victorian era militaria doesn't really hold me in good enough stead to offer you a feasible alternative. It is well known that collars were not worn, and so I see no cause to dispute this reasoning.

Andy,

Maker's variation is certainly the most likely theory, isn't it. It is not unreasonable to conclude these differences are nothing more than this, and if I am honest, I too believe it to be the case here.

I wanted to propose other possibilities for these variations as I think it's very easy to dismiss such anomalies in this way, and I sometimes feel we are all a bit guilty of this at times, albeit to a greater or lesser degree.

In this case though I actually completely agree... unless someone can prove me wrong, which would be great.

Thanks for the photos.

Malc,

All the examples I have (or have ever seen) of this badge display these honours in the same way. This wavy line is one of the main ways I identify this post-1905 pattern at a glance. I'd love to know if there are other examples which show them differently, but I have certainly never seen any.

Thank you gentlemen for you contributions here; some really interesting points raised, and I am especially interested by Keith's comments regarding the addition of the word 'Corps'. As Marc (54Bty) said recently:

'Stop it!:(That is something else I have to check for now.' :D

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Peter, don't know if this help's but I dug up the three I have at the moment (one actually the same as your's, no slider). I see what you mean. There are variations I think in all three.

Simon.

Thanks Si,

Interesting pictures; No.3 seems to be a bit of a hybrid bewtween No.1 and No.2 in that is appears to have aspects of both (another one to look out for now!)

Also interesting that the broken slider badge is the exact same pattern as my broken slider example. Mine is broken completely away from the main body of the badge, with nothing of the slider remaining whatsoever. It must have been a weak join... is yours the same?

Appreciate your help.

All the best,

Peter.

yes, I meant to add that in my original post. Completely no sign of original slider.

Simon.

Seems like a dodgy run then. Given Andy's Lambourne example above, I wonder if this was the maker of our two examples and the small font pattern in general? I'd be interested to see other makers of this small font version.

Thanks again, Simon.

PJ

Thought i would show my 1st CB Kings Royal Rifles badges

Malc

Here are my badges peter.

Thanks for this, Billy.

Does the pattern with the smaller lettering have lugs or is the slider missing?

Cheers,

Peter

Just sent you a message on that peter

A new addition which came to me very recently:

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Dimensions: H = 35mm x W = 25mm approx.

Kindly given by a friend who acquired it specifically for me via a current member of the 1st CB KRR.

Thought it might be of interest :)

Regards to all,

Peter.