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  #1  
Old 13-11-09, 05:26 PM
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Default Wear and tear..

This example of the 8th Recce badge is currently listed on ebay. A previous owner has spent a lot of time polishing off the detail on the obverse. At the time, it was probably the envy of others, being bright and sparkly. Unfortunately, the value of the badge is considerably reduced for today's collector.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...T#ht_500wt_975
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  #2  
Old 13-11-09, 05:41 PM
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Bill that is a very interesing badge. I like it very much. I will not be bidding however. I am still on the hunt for a nice original but with the prices sky-rocketing, I think I will just stay content with my Scully marked reunion bagde.
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  #3  
Old 13-11-09, 07:19 PM
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Hi Bill and Ray. Ray, I don't know if you noticed that this badge has no holes for the overlay pins and no overlay. Is it possible that this badge is one of a first batch made without the overlay???

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Old 13-11-09, 08:05 PM
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Not sure about it being first issue, but it may have never had the overlay on it.
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Old 13-11-09, 08:30 PM
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Default Not a two piece badge

This is one of the white metal one piece badges. Never had the overlay. The two piece badges are flattened where the overlay goes. As seen from the back the inscription "VIII Recce" does not show through. This badge shows the lettering through, as well as having no holes for the overlay pins.

If I were an VIII Recce collector I might be tempted to pick it up (as a unique "version"), but as a general collectable it really is little more than scrap metal now. This mutilation may have been just as easily been post war. The seller has a "story" but it is not verifiable in anyway.
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Old 13-11-09, 08:45 PM
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This is the 2nd 'buzzed' badge I've seen; the other, a 2-piece, had the overlay removed, the base polished down like this & the overlay put back. Probably need to examine a few 8th Recce wartime pix to see if there is any truth to the 'officers did it' story.
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Old 13-11-09, 08:48 PM
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Hi Bill, It is unlikely the damage was inflicted post war, as the unit reverted to the 14 Hussars badges, and the 8th Recce ones were obsolete. The 8th Recce badges were likely relegated to the dresser drawer or some other out of mind place. It was quite a common practice to "polish" the detail off of the badge, and in some cases the soldier took great pride in achieving this state with his badge. This is not to say that it could have happened post war, but the likelihood is small.
(I believe there was an earlier thread on the Forum with an image of an 8th Recce fellow wearing the 14th Hussars badge. IIRC the image was taken at a river crossing.)
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Old 14-11-09, 12:07 AM
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Hi Bill & David

While I do not discount the story about certain ranks purposely polishing their badge to a mirror finish, I don't give it much weight either. It is another story in the great oral tradition of this hobby. Way too much oral tradition than anyone committing to well documented research. I think I have voiced my opinions on real provenance and documented facts before, so no need to rehash that. Sadly the ability to sort fact from fiction is quickly disappearing as these vets pass away.

I too have seen (and own) badges that are dutifully and lovingly polished to smooth. From looking at this particular badge I see nothing that would lend itself to say conclusively either way this was done wartime or post war. I find it just as likely that some lazy someone didn't want to polish this badge the "hard" way and took a 6000 rpm wire wheel to it??

There is a photo (as referenced in the other thread) of their CO, Lt. Col Vokes, wearing what appears to be a one piece badge (as it lacks a change in tone where the overlay should be), though it could just as easily be a two piece, B&W photos sometimes being deceiving. However, it does show the leaf containing detail. So, at the least it would not be typical of ALL officers. It could well be a certain Squadron or even a troop level affectation, perhaps certain NCO's or troop leaders?? Or maybe it's just a dumb story to salvage value in an otherwise defaced and worthless badge...

From what Brooker has researched and written about this badge, it was a regimental, private purchase badge and all ranks had to buy their cap badge and there was even a probationary period before being eligible to buy the badge (i.e.: prove yourself worthy to wear it). I think this may well explain photos showing contemporary wear of both the VIII Recce "Leaf" badge and the Bucking Bronc of the 14thCLH/CH.

The two piece badge is a heavy, well made badge of silver and gilt brass, the one piece badge I am not sure if it silver or white metal. (Some also say the one piece is a fake too??). To me, it seems criminal to deface this badge in such a way. Especially considering the materials it is made from and the effort required to get it. At least during the war? After the war, you keep it in a drawer and it keeps tarnishing, it may be easier to keep clean by whizzing off the detail?? (I know that one of my examples was black as pitch when I acquired it and it was many diligent hours with cotton on the end of a toothpick to get in all the nooks and crannies.)

Ah, but that's just more useless conjecture...

Anyway, my point is the same as yours was originally, there is little collectable value in the "damaged" badge. Which is a shame and it is a further shame that we don't have a true and documented origin to this interesting badge.

Bill (who is not as cranky as he may sound!)
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  #9  
Old 14-11-09, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
there is little collectable value in the "damaged" badge.
I disagree

The practise was wide spread in the British Army and I have an example of a RAOC '18 pattern badge with the ordnance centre shield detail only being rubbed down. I was told that a piece of packing cardboard & brasso was used to achieve such a finish.

In the RAOC after the war this was done by RAOC National Servicemen to achieve what they called a 'Hate Badge' as they were still issue KC brass badges long after the regulars stated to receive QC Anodised examples. BUT old sweats tried to keep the older KC brass badges anyway! (All part of old RAOC soldiers reminisces to me)

Such badges are not 'as issued' and are indeed frowned upon my many a purest collector, but non the less forms part of the history of military insignia, and a nice example should be included in a regimental badge collection, but not perhaps in a general collection where all you are doing is trying to make the set!
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  #10  
Old 18-11-09, 02:21 AM
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This badge still sold for US$128.50.
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"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." -

“There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.”
Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003.

Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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  #11  
Old 10-12-09, 04:15 AM
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Default 8th recce..

I wished I had bought the badge. Heavily polished and altered badges have become an interest of mine for some time.I have several CAC,RCA and RCR cap badges that have been obviously intentionally altered by the owners and one with provenance. An RCR cap badge that was given to me by my next door neighour when I was a youth(and worn by me as the CSM of the RCR Cadet Corps) was intentionally polished on a wheel by the soldier and he told me this was common practice among his peers as well.
As Bill says alot of these were done on wheels as they were not in use long enough to be worn down during polishing.
Artillery and CAC cap badges seem to be some of the favourites of the polishing wheel treatment.The CAC Badges(i have seven of them) are very selectively done with the details of the tank being polished with the rest of the badge left alone.I even have one with the tank polished smooth and the words RECCE T.C. engraved on the tank.The arty badges also seem to be a favourite one with heavy polishing and even several I,ve seen with a Dutch or Italian coin sweated onto the wheel of the gun.The most common RCR alteration seems to be to grind the rays of the star completly flat and then polish to a mirror finish like the one I got from my neighbour in the 70's.
I,ve stopped looking at them as damaged badges and see them as actual theatre worn artifacts which of course they are and to me anyway mean more than the bags of mint ersatz unissued examples that sat well into the 60's at the RCOC depot in London or Borden.
I,ll take all you,ve got.....
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  #12  
Old 10-12-09, 06:51 PM
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Default Altered RCA badge for interests sake...

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