9th Lancers

[Alan O]

Is it just me or does this seem alot of money to pay for a badge that was not made duringt he regt's lifetime? I don't know if Chris has managed to date the production of these but I am certain it was after 1970 and that was a few years after the 9th/12th was created.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Mike H]

It would be interesting to see what the production date was.I have seen a/a collars to the 9th but again Chris said collars and capbadges were made at different times.
I would have said that the 9th L was the 2nd rarest a/a cavalry badge after the 12th L.
I think its a completeness thing,that you can get a "full" set of cavalry badges.
I wonder if the badges were produced for a similar thing to the reason that the 3rd KOH were supposedly done.
Do the 12th L a/a badges have makers names on the slider ? Could somebody please post a rear view of one.

[Alan O]

Mike,

It is from the same maker as the 3 KOH and the Rwarcs and a number of others. I don't believe that the 3 KOH were made for the regt or regtl PRI but as a commercial venture for the collectors market. They are eactly the same as several other fantasy badges.

Alan

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Mike,

It is from the same maker as the 3 KOH and the Rwarcs and a number of others. I don't believe that the 3 KOH were made for the regt or regtl PRI but as a commercial venture for the collectors market. They are eactly the same as several other fantasy badges.

Alan

With regard to the 3rd KOH,the story i heard was that they were made for a reunion.
The thing is they must have been made by a real manufacturer rather than a dodgy knock up firm.They are made from the same process as the genuine article from the correct materials,rather than the modern fake a/a badges.
As a foot note to 3KOH,a/a collars were made(as QRH)but again i dont know when.

[Alan O]

Yes they were certainly professionally made but not I suspect by one of the old manufacturers. The style of manufacture is not one used by Firmin, Gaunts (London or Bham) or by Smith and Wright.

Alan

[Mike H]

It will probaly remain a mystery until somebody who either made them or ordered them sticks their hand up and say "it was mehe".
Do you have an idea of a rough date when they were made?

[Alan O]

From memory 8th Foot has an old article written in the 1980s (?) which lists all of the a/a badges made and includes those 'new' (at the time) arrivals that he believed to be repros. I had a copy somewhere but may have lost it when I changed my laptop.

Alan

[Mike H]

I wonder if he still has it or access to it ?
Do i remember seeing a list of badges that were made in a thread somewhere on here.
When you say produced do you mean a production run of say 1000 badges or a sample run of 50 badges for approval ?

[ukbrits]

Originally Posted by Mike H

It would be interesting to see what the production date was.I have seen a/a collars to the 9th but again Chris said collars and capbadges were made at different times.
I would have said that the 9th L was the 2nd rarest a/a cavalry badge after the 12th L.
I think its a completeness thing,that you can get a "full" set of cavalry badges.
I wonder if the badges were produced for a similar thing to the reason that the 3rd KOH were supposedly done.
Do the 12th L a/a badges have makers names on the slider ? Could somebody please post a rear view of one.

Hi Mike H
Here's a few views of the 12th lancers a/a badge. It is made by H.W Timings and has a rivet type fitting fixing the slider to the badge.
Best Regards.
UKbrits

[Mike H]

Thanks for that UKBrits,looking at the fitting its very similar to way Grove Mfg fixed their metal sliders to their badges.Similar slider too but aluminium rather than brass.
Looks like the 12th was a genuine item and the 9th was not.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Is it just me or does this seem alot of money to pay for a badge that was not made duringt he regt's lifetime? I don't know if Chris has managed to date the production of these but I am certain it was after 1970 and that was a few years after the 9th/12th was created.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Hi Alan,

As far as I'm concerned someone did their dough on this badge. With what I know from official correspondence on both the 9th and 12th lancers badges in A/A where great comment was made by the trade on the production problems of making the 9th/12th badge as an accumulated item. The issues were to such a degree that at the time the trade would not renew the contract to continue production for further batches. If the 9th and 12th had previously been manufactured as separate items by the trade then such production issues would have been known about and the contract comments on the 9th/12th lancer badge would not have been made.

I would suggest that neither the 9th or 12th as separate items in A/A was officially authorised for issue. Granted, both are in the LoC documents in C 4717 of November 1951 but this change is a generic general entry of future intent only. No information is given in the designation notes for creation of pattern cards or authorisation for introduction for issue for either badge and neither is there provision to do so in this particular change.

From C 4717 the two A/A entries later had their CB numbers taken and allocated to W.M metal for the 9th Lancers and G.M. and W.M. for the 12th Lancers. This was carried out by changes C 6443 and C 6703 respectively in 1955. Both badges were then declared obsolete via change C 9594 on the 31st May 1960.

UK Brits has a nice 12th Lancers badge which is a bit of a fly in my tub of ointment in all this with a correct slider. I cannot currently explain it for now but it may well have been part of an prototype batch for the War Office which may well have been rejected on grounds of cost. This may explaining why the CB number was later taken for WM and WM and GM versions. Hopefully I will find more evidence for this and still have 500 odd photos of documents to get through.

UK Brits badge notwithstanding, unless I can find official correspondance re: authorisation to issue for either badge in A/A I have to consider that after weighing up all official evidence I currently have and have read on issue of badges into these two regiments that these badges in A/A are fakes at worse or unofficial commissions at best.

Therefore, I would most strongly suggest and advise that on the evidence that exists that collectors of A/A badges do not actively seek out these two badges and if they ever do find one to pay more around five quid for it.

I also believe that many collectors are currently paying far too much money for 'exotic' A/A badges without knowing the true history behind the introduction or otherwise behind specific pieces and people need to take a deep intake of breath here and hold back until they really know what was and what was not officially manufactured.

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

Does anybody else have a 12thL a/a,if so please send me a pm.