1st Vol Battn (Berwick) Northumberland Fusiliers Senior NCO

[wright241]

This picture was taken in Berwick On Tweed around 1904 and shows
a photographic studio picture of a Sergeant of this regiment.
I have played around with the contrast and brightness a little bit as the original picture is somewhat faded.
The back of the picture is notated that he was in the 1st Vol Battn G Company - Berwick, Northumberland Fusiliers and is named as S.I.J Topp
no rank specified
2 questions for you guru's out there.
1. The QVC helmet plate on the table is an officers version - was this normal
for senior NCO's? I am not bothered about the crown being wrong, this
was not unusual.
2. The x4 stripes and the badge above it - this could be crossed rifles but
I am not sure... and I don't have my L&D with me...

Any help appreciated. david

[tynesideirish]

David, what a fantastic picture. I'm so jealous! I'm living very near Berwick I'm yet to find any! Where did you get it?

The man is a Staff Sergeant first Class so the helmet badge is as worn.

Your date however must be wrong. It is pre 1881 as the four-bar chevron is being worn.

The Four Bar Chevron (with or without additional badges) was first worn by Serjeant-Majors point downwards above the elbow. But from 1881 it was ordered that throughout the Army, it would be worn point uppermost below the elbow. (Note: Present day the only use now is that of the various appointments of Music-Majors ranking as Staff-Sergeants.")

After 1881 Warrant Officers were graded into 2 distinct groups. 'Group 1' being Conductors, and later Master Gunners Class 1(followed later again by others) and 'Group 2' being Warrant Officers of lesser standing (The terms 'Group 1' & 'Group 2' are unoffical but will be used in this article for clarity)

The Large Crown (First Use 1882 - 1915) In 1882, an order introducing the badges to be worn by the second batch of Warrant Officers, stated that they would not wear chevrons. The final choice of the Crown as the badge of Warrant Officers within 'Group 2' was more than likley adopted due to the fact that the majority of Staff Serjeants Class 1 already wore one above a four-bar chevron. Virtually all that occurred was that the wearing of the chevrons was discontinued.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by tynesideirish

David, what a fantastic picture. I'm so jealous! I'm living very near Berwick I'm yet to find any! Where did you get it?

Hows life....
It came with the officers helmet plate - which is in my album - whether its
exactly the same one as in the picture is impossible to tell. But I would like
to think that it is....
The photographers name on the picture is W.Green of 7/9 Castlegate, Berwick.
This was another reason why I was trying to get hold of the earlier journals.
The only reason I mentioned this date was that is handwritten on the back
of the picture. It sounds like this is a mistake and will add a note to that
effect.
Many thanks for the info, thats put some more material to add to my notes.
Now I just have to try and get hold of a 2nd Vol Battn plate.....
All the best, david

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by tynesideirish

David, what a fantastic picture. I'm so jealous! I'm living very near Berwick I'm yet to find any! Where did you get it?

The man is a Staff Sergeant first Class so the helmet badge is as worn.

Your date however must be wrong. It is pre 1881 as the four-bar chevron is being worn.

The Four Bar Chevron (with or without additional badges) was first worn by Serjeant-Majors point downwards above the elbow. But from 1881 it was ordered that throughout the Army, it would be worn point uppermost below the elbow..

Unless you've never ever read Volunteer Regulations never assume your ranks. What you're actally looking at is a "regular" soldier on secondment to a Volunteer Battalion, and as such is Sgt Instructor of Musketry. In this case wearing the four chevrons, which above will be worn the crossed rifles with crown above, as he hold a certificate as a qualified musketry instructor.

What is of notable interest here is the fact that he's wearing silver(?) lace to the collar and Austrian knot, as well as the silver whistle and chain. This was normally the preserve of officers and Warrant Officers.

From these "regular" Instructors one would be selected by the Battalion C/O to be the "acting-Sgt Major", which would entitle him to wear 4 inverted chevrons with crown above

Volunteer Sgts within this Volunteer Battalion normally wore the blackened brass whistle and chain.

As well as Musketry Instructors you also had Sgt Instructors seconded from their regular battalions and these would wear just the 4 chevrons with crown above.

Nearly all of these "regulars" on seconded postings to Volunteer units were in reality Colour Sgts marking time before retirement and so were often posted to either the Volunteers or Militia until their discharge.

[Peter99]

The four bar chevron has in fact been re-resurrected!
It is now to be worn by the Garrison Sejearnt Major London District, who is normally from the Brigade of Guards and based at the Tower of London.
Superimposed on the four chevrons is the Coat of Arms of the Guards Regimental Sejearnt Major.
What a splendid badge it is!
Check out: Youtube Trooping the Colour rehearsal march off 2011.

[cossack]

Originally Posted by Graham Stewart

Unless you've never ever read Volunteer Regulations never assume your ranks. What you're actally looking at is a "regular" soldier on secondment to a Volunteer Battalion, and as such is Sgt Instructor of Musketry. In this case wearing the four chevrons, which above will be worn the crossed rifles with crown above, as he hold a certificate as a qualified musketry instructor.

What is of notable interest here is the fact that he's wearing silver(?) lace to the collar and Austrian knot, as well as the silver whistle and chain. This was normally the preserve of officers and Warrant Officers.

From these "regular" Instructors one would be selected by the Battalion C/O to be the "acting-Sgt Major", which would entitle him to wear 4 inverted chevrons with crown above

Volunteer Sgts within this Volunteer Battalion normally wore the blackened brass whistle and chain.

As well as Musketry Instructors you also had Sgt Instructors seconded from their regular battalions and these would wear just the 4 chevrons with crown above.

Nearly all of these "regulars" on seconded postings to Volunteer units were in reality Colour Sgts marking time before retirement and so were often posted to either the Volunteers or Militia until their discharge.

Absolutely spot on & beat me to it in regard to the rank of Sergeant-Instructor of Musketry! I would like to add that quite often the most senior NCO in regiment would wear officer pattern headgear, in fact I was discussing this same usage of headgear within the RMLI & RMA just the other day.
regards...Andy

[CftD]

Originally Posted by Graham Stewart

Unless you've never ever read Volunteer Regulations never assume your ranks. What you're actally looking at is a "regular" soldier on secondment to a Volunteer Battalion, and as such is Sgt Instructor of Musketry. In this case wearing the four chevrons, which above will be worn the crossed rifles with crown above, as he hold a certificate as a qualified musketry instructor.

What is of notable interest here is the fact that he's wearing silver(?) lace to the collar and Austrian knot, as well as the silver whistle and chain. This was normally the preserve of officers and Warrant Officers.

From these "regular" Instructors one would be selected by the Battalion C/O to be the "acting-Sgt Major", which would entitle him to wear 4 inverted chevrons with crown above

Volunteer Sgts within this Volunteer Battalion normally wore the blackened brass whistle and chain.

As well as Musketry Instructors you also had Sgt Instructors seconded from their regular battalions and these would wear just the 4 chevrons with crown above.

Nearly all of these "regulars" on seconded postings to Volunteer units were in reality Colour Sgts marking time before retirement and so were often posted to either the Volunteers or Militia until their discharge.

May I add my 'spot-on' to this thread ? Too many assumptions are made in relation to chevrons but your crystalisation of the photograph is 100%. Let me add - a fine photograph and a useful point of reference. David

[Graham Stewart]

Gentlemen - many thanks for the encouraging response and I hope to be able to add to your Forum as time goes on.

As it was I was going to add an attachment photo of a Sgt 1st V.B., NF showing the difference, but when I click "insert image" it asks for a URL? How do you add images from your collections without having to give a URL? The image is on my laptop, but is part of my N.F. collection, which amounts to over 1,000 images.

[CftD]

May I just add a point to my previous post ? I rather suspect that the helmet in the photograph has been 'borrowed' for effect. Unless the most senior NCO in the unit, no NCO would be permitted to wear an officers' helmetand this is clearly an officers' helmet. Waiting for the flak ! David

[badger123]

Am I right in assuming as Cossack says that the most senior NCO in a battalion would have worn an officers badge much in the same way that even in todays army the RSM (i.e. the most senior soldier) of a battalion wears an officers badge, sam browne, shoes etc?

I am interested in what people think.

[Toby Purcell]

I agree with Graham that the man is a Sergeant Instructor of Musketry but it is also true that that rank is part of the generic grouping of First Class Staff Serjeants, which was the highest grouping below warrant officer at that time, and included Quarter Master Sergeants and various other senior and/or specialized appointees.

Although the Staff Serjeants badges of rank in the VF were entirely different to the Regulars (see enclosed photo of man at far right) the principal SNCO groupings were the same and the meaning of Staff Serjeant was rather like that of Staff Officer today, in that they were senior NCOs holding specialized appointments. Confusion is often caused because nowadays Staff Sergeant is just a rank between Sergeant and WO and not a grouping.

Men of the First Class Staff Serjeant group wore superior quality tunics, extra lace and in very many regiments and corps were entitled to officers headdress such as the Staff Cap with vertical peak and Officers pattern Helmets, and even Blue Patrol Jackets. Colour Serjeants fell into the Second Class grouping.

The First Class Staff Serjeant grouping later became (in 1915) Warrant Officers Second class, falling into line behind the original Warrant Officers who thus became Warrant Officers First class.

And yes badger he would have had a superior badge as per above.

[cossack]

Originally Posted by Counsel for the Defence

May I just add a point to my previous post ? I rather suspect that the helmet in the photograph has been 'borrowed' for effect. Unless the most senior NCO in the unit, no NCO would be permitted to wear an officers' helmetand this is clearly an officers' helmet. Waiting for the flak ! David

David,
That's exactly what I meant before, if he was most senior NCO then he would most likely be permitted to wear an officers pattern helmet. If you can find my album on the 2nd VB ES where you will see a pic of my Great-Grandfather, his helmet is of officer pattern with an unusual blackened & silver version of the OR's helmet plate. He was Sergeant-Instructor of Musketry on the permanent staff, as the most senior NCO you will see he is entitled to carry a sword as well. His tunic is of officer pattern but without the loops on the outer 'buttons. Unfortunately there is an awful lot of variation between the VB's as to what they wore so it can be a complete minefield analysing the photos!
Regards....andy

[Graham Stewart]

IMG VF regs 1897_0004 - Copy (2).jpg

Clothing for those attached to Volunteer units as per Volunteer Regs 1897, but this would have been subject to amendment over periods of time.

[Graham Stewart]

Sgt 1st V.B.,N.F. with pre-1909 Rifle grey tunic.jpg

Now that I've mastered the attachment mularkey here is a photo of a Volunteer Sgt of the 1st V.B., NF, wearing the blackened brass whistle and chain. The South African campaign medal indicating he had served in South Africa with one of the Volunteer Service Companies attached to one of the regular battalions of the N.F. These men were numbered in a sequence unique to them within the regimental numbering system.

[engr9266]

Just to show the new badge of rank for the Garrison Sergeant Major, London District. Approved in April 2011