O.B.L.I. NoI Dress Cap, Date?

[m_cox1967]

Hi all, Here is my new (O. B. L. I.) Major / Lt Colonel's, NoI Dress Cap. I think this cap dates to around 1931 To 1939? And the Cap Badge is marked "J&Co" on the large part of horn (Inside!) for Jenning's so it's before 1924 which makes me think that this was his original badge and he was promoted to Major and simply used his old cap badge on his new cap?
Thanks for any help. Mick

[David Tremain]

Great looking cap!

David

[Peter Brydon]

Mick,

Nice item, Stupid question, have you folded back the headband to make sure there is no owners name hidden away ?

P.B.

[m_cox1967]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Mick,

Nice item, Stupid question, have you folded back the headband to make sure there is no owners name hidden away ?

P.B.

Hi Peter, No I haven't looked as I'm a bit scared that I might cause some damage to this Very Nice Cap! Mick

[ASR142]

Hi Mick
Can you provide the following :
1 a picture of the cap from the front which has not been cropped
so close so all of the cap from the front can be seen ?
2 what is the small narrow band a round the font of the peak is made up of ?
3 a picture of the buttons on the side of the cap
The reason for this is badges often get replaced on caps over the years i.e. from father to son who uses dads old badge in his cap as its a better example or even old stock of badges still held by the tailors
cap martials changed drastically of the years and this looks like it has a padded crown having just the prince of wales appointment does not help regard steve

[m_cox1967]

Originally Posted by ASR142

Hi Mick
Can you provide the following :
1 a picture of the cap from the front which has not been cropped
so close so all of the cap from the front can be seen ?
2 what is the small narrow band a round the font of the peak is made up of ?
3 a picture of the buttons on the side of the cap
The reason for this is badges often get replaced on caps over the years i.e. from father to son who uses dads old badge in his cap as its a better example or even old stock of badges still held by the tailors
cap martials changed drastically of the years and this looks like it has a padded crown having just the prince of wales appointment does not help regard steve

Here are your answers, Steve.
1 I did not want my house on display.
2 Gold Lace/Thread, I think?
3 I forgot this photo. I will take it tomorrow for you.

Thanks, Mick

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by m_cox1967

Here are your answers, Steve.
1 I did not want my house on display.
2 Gold Lace/Thread, I think?
3 I forgot this photo. I will take it tomorrow for you.

Thanks, Mick

Hi Mick
I not on about the majors and above gold wire band but what's on the very edge of the peak folded over and stitched in place after the gold band if its plastic its post 1958 regards steve

[m_cox1967]

Originally Posted by ASR142

Hi Mick
I not on about the majors and above gold wire band but what's on the very edge of the peak folded over and stitched in place after the gold band if its plastic its post 1958 regards steve

Here are the other photo's (None are Cropped!) Just taken on my Phone as close as I can.

I hope it is not post "1958" as this cap came from a very good source!

Thanks, Mick

[ASR142]

Hi Mick and everyone else
As with cap badges ( to some degree ) but a lot easier head dress can be dated to with in a few years by their traits , construction , The Royal lineage when marked then by makers details etc.
Coloured field service caps changed greatly during the period 1910 to 1949 in this instance we are dealing with a cap which I can say with great certainty that its pre 1937 and most likely to date from and round 1928-1930 So lets take a look at the pics
The pics show only leather was used in its construction and no PVC or plastics in any parts of the cap so its ts not Prince Charles who was bestowed with the prince of wales title in 1958 and crowned The price of wales in 1969 by this time the small narrow strip of stitched leather was usually plastic OR A PVC material also the crown of the cap has no padding or thicker so its not a post 1946 example the shape of the peak also shows this no coloured caps where permitted to be made from about 1941 till 1946 due to martial shortages side hats were permitted how ever so this takes out this period also the was no prince of wales at this point in the uk history .
more to follow tomorrow

[Mike_2817]

The Prince of Wales prior to Charles was Prince Edward 20 June 1901 till 23 January 1936 when he acceded to throne as King Edward VIII (later (1937) Duke of Windsor)

[m_cox1967]

Originally Posted by ASR142

we are dealing with a cap which I can say with great certainty that its pre 1937 and most likely to date from and round 1928-1930

This date sounds a lot better to me. The guy that I got it from said late thirties was his best guess, Hence I gave it a wide date of between: 1931 to 1939!

I look forward to part two tomorrow Thanks, Steve

Thanks again, Mick

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

The Prince of Wales prior to Charles was Prince Edward 20 June 1901 till 23 January 1936 when he acceded to throne as King Edward VIII (later (1937) Duke of Windsor)

Albert Edward (son of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert)
Created Prince of Wales on 8th December 1841, aged four weeks, in London
Acceded as King Edward VII on 22nd January 1901


George (son of King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra)
Created Prince of Wales on 9th November 1901, aged 36, in London
Acceded as King George V on 6th May 1910


Edward (son of King George V and Queen Mary)
Created Prince of Wales on 23rd June 1910, aged 16. Invested on 13th July 1911, at Caernarfon Castle
Acceded as King Edward VIII on 20th January 1936
NONE TILL CHARLES
Charles (son of Queen Elizabeth II and The Duke of Edinburgh)
Created Prince of Wales on 26th July 1958, aged nine; invested on 1st July 1969, at Caernarfon Castle

[fougasse1940]

Good research, but I wonder, does a 'by appointment' to a specific member of the royal family end upon their passing away, or in the case of the Prince of Wales, gets automatically changed into 'by appointment to the king' when he becomes king? Or do they always remain as when first granted?
In other words, how trustworthy is dating this cap just by the 'by appointment' mark?

Rgds, Thomas.

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Good research, but I wonder, does a 'by appointment' to a specific member of the royal family end upon their passing away, or in the case of the Prince of Wales, gets automatically changed into 'by appointment to the king' when he becomes king? Or do they always remain as when first granted?
In other words, how trustworthy is dating this cap just by the 'by appointment' mark?

Rgds, Thomas.

Hi Thomas
When a king or queen passes away the appointment bit becomes to the late king or queen when the prince of wales becomes king it changes to appointment to the king at this point also the prince of wales feathers change to the royal coat of arms . Now the only exception to this was in 1936 when KING EDWARD VIII Abdicated and his royal appointment warrant was stripped by the end of December 1936 and just disappears from every company during this time that used it prior to the great escape to France. steve

[fougasse1940]

Right, OK, thank you.

Rgds, Thomas.