Royal Winnipeg Rifles cloth collars?

[Bill A]

I was emailed this image from the Royal Winnipeg Rifles Musuem. It includes the rare triangular shoulder title. But, even more interesting was the pair of cloth collar badges?
Does anyone have any information about these? When? Why?

[bgpipes]

Hi Bill, Would you believe, I actually have one of those cloth collars, Like you,I didnt believe it was a collar badge,until I saw your posting....Bill E.(according to your posting,mine would have been worn on left collar)

[Little black devil]

Hello,
Nice collection.
The Royal Winnipeg is my main collecting subject.
I don't have the cloth collar but I saw them on pictures (I'm close from the RWR association, so I can have all the pictures I want to)
Those collars were used between 1940 and 1941.
After that, They use the CANADA title, the 3rd Div Patch and the triangle title (1941-1943). Then, they changed for the new ROYAL WINNIPEG RIFLES title, the 13rd june 1943.

Cheers Freddie

PS: I'm French (a froggie) so, sorry for my english... (I always loved Great Britain!!!)

[Bill A]

Thanks Freddie, missed your reply. The adoption of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles titles was likely a bit earlier. Documents from LAC (Library & Archives Canada) and DND (Directorate of History and Heritage) suggest the new pattern titles were taken into use in April.
And, the triangular pattern patch didn't completely disappear. There is evidence of them in use in the fall of 1944.

[Voltigeur]

Bill, when you say " there is evidence of them in use in the fall of 1944" do you mean in Canada or in NWE ?
Jo

[Bill A]

Jo, NW Europe.

[Voltigeur]

Thanks Bill. Any pics by any chance.
Jo

[Little black devil]

I got one picture in which we can see a RWR wearing the triangle patch on the boat 5th June 44. I got another one with the RSM and two sergeants, the RSM is wearing the triangle patch also. The WO rank is in brass without dark green backing.
Maybe they keep the triangle patch on the Battle dress but a lot of veterans told me they didn't use this patch after mid-1943.
bye

[Little black devil]

Hi Bill,

Source: War Diary of the 1st Bn Royal Winnipeg Rifles May & June 1943.

13rd May 1943:
"The Guard of Honor for the Duke of Gloucester practiced both morning and afternoon. They were all issued with the new Regimental Flash and were re-equipped with the new battledress."

11th June 1943:
"Capt. Christie, attached, left for London where he is to pick up the remainder of the new Battalion flashes"

12nd June 1943:
"The whole Battalion has now been equipped with the new Battalion flashes which makes a very neat and striking appearance."

Here is what I found out.

Regards

Fred

[Bill A]

Hello Fred, Thanks for the information. I take it that information is from the war diary? There is a mention of the first parade made with the first batch of new flashes was in April.
Interesting to note that "he left for London, where he is to pick up the remainder of the new Battalion flashes". Implications from this statement:
1. The titles were not ordnance issue, as they were not coming in through the system.
2. The titles were not the printed pattern. The printed pattern were only made by Calico at their Accrington facility, and then distributed by the RCOC system.
3. As no other facility was able to produce printed titles, these R Wpg R titles must be embroidered.
Could you indicate the source of the notes? Thanks.

[Little black devil]

Hi Bill,

I edited my last post with the sources. As you guessed it was the War Diary of the 1st Bn RWR.

I totally agree with you. They were made by a tailor.
The title was embroidered with a very dark backing.
Vets said the "Originals" got this one on the Landing. Very few kept the triangle. Some had the printed one and the Canadian embroidered made.

This one comes from my collection, given by the son of a veteran. The backing is white canvas (hope it's the good word in English)

[Little black devil]

Hi Bill,

Could it be possible to know who? When and where the RWR printed titles were made?
Which Canadian brand made the RWR titles ?
Fred

[Bill A]

Hello Fred, All Canadian printed titles (with a couple of exceptions) were made by Calico Printers Assoc. at their Accrington plant. There were two patterns, a medium green with white lettering (not accepted by the unit) and the white on black pattern which was finally issued sometime in the fall of 1944. In other words the unit did not have printed titles on D-Day or in Normandy.
I am not sure what you mean in your last question.

[Voltigeur]

For his last question, Fred probably means "wich Canadian company made the RWR titles".(those worn by the unit in Canada)

Jo

[Little black devil]

Yes, Voltigeur is right. I meant Canadian Company... Sorry.

Regards
Fred