Durham Light Infantry Volunteer Battalions

[2747andy]

Having just acquired a nice little collection of DLI VB badges, it has sparked a few questions! When did the change from the "Maltese Cross" pattern badges to the "Bugle" take place (I guess early 1900's?) or were they worn simultaneously on other forms of headdress, how many VBs were there between 1881 and 1908 and were there other Bugle pattern pattern VB badges apart from 1, 2 and 3?

Many thanks

Andy

[Alex Rice]

Nice badges

[John Mulcahy]

Andy

I can start the ball rolling for you but cannot answer your specific questions.

The 2VB Maltese Cross badge with QVC you show is illustrated in WO259/21. It is annotated as approved by Horseguards War Office as the FSC badge for rank & file on 13 May 1895.

The illustration is stamped by Samuel Brothers, Contractors, London and in turn by 2VB DLI on May 1st and the Central Registry Office York on 8 May.

PM me your details if you would like a copy of the illustration.

John

[2747andy]

John,
that's great and many thanks

PM TFO!

Andy

[Peter Brydon]

DLI had 5 Volunteer Battalions.

P.B.

[davec2]

I can't help you with any history Andy but I can tell you what you already know, a great pick up, well done.

Dave.

[mooke07]

Thanks very much for sharing these badges with us Andy,

You raise a really interesting point that extends to the volunteer battalion badges of many infantry regiments I am sure. However, the change in Maltese Cross to hunting horn is quite a question for DLI badges. There is very little recorded about these type of badges let alone dating them.

I have some notes from an old collector from Ry that the Victorian soft-topped crown badge was worn from 1887-1900. We know that the sealing date for the KC version was 1903 from Julian (aka KLR) and I would have thought the date should extend to 1903 for the Victorian crowned badge. Maltese Cross pattern badges are not uncommon for Rifle Volunteer Corps from which the VB's were derived from. I can see that the style persisted and then gave way to the bugle pattern in keeping with its adoption by the regular battalions. The fact that we both have KC versions in GM and WM for a VB battalion probably infers that they did not change in style until these battalions became part of the TF battalions in 1908.

I will be back from St Louis at the weekend and will get to my further notes and references and add more then. I am short on photographic references to the VB battalions beyond the 1st VB. The Officer's and OR's helmet plates for QVC and KC periods are hunting horns for the 1-3rd VB.

Once again thanks for posting and yes very jealous.

Cheers Dean

[Peter Brydon]

AS far as ( some ) Lancashire Rifle Volunteer headdress badges are concerned it appears that the early shako plates were often based on a strung hunting/bugle horn design and later badges were based on a maltese cross.

The main point I think is that the Rifle Volunteers were pretty much a law unto themselves and it is ( in my opinion ) impossible to lay down rules for the design of their insignia, which makes the whole subject so fascinating and frustrating at the same time.

P.B.

[mooke07]

Here is the 3rd VB DLI stringed bugle badge referred to in Gaylor (thanks to Forum Member HAMMO2440 aka Marcus and the Forum Classifieds).

I have also attached a picture taken from a guide to the DLI Chapel in Durham Cathedral of a number of badges to the regiment. It is hard to make out the numbers within the bugle strings but 1st, 2nd and 8th are numerals. 6th Battalion is noted as being from their militia background. What is interesting is the 9th Battalion badge is shown with IX within the bugle strings.

All of these are KC version badges.

I have seen KC and QVC 2nd and 4th Battalion DLI badges. K&K 1747 is a KC Maltese Cross style badge for Officers in the 6th battalion.

I have been through many photographs on the net and in my own collection of DLI VB battalion soldiers but cannot definitively identify any QVC version VB stringed bugle badges.

Full dress helmet plates for the 2nd and 4th Battalions are Maltese Cross style helmet plates. One is illustrated on the DLI museum site.

With a sealing pattern of 1903 for the regular DLI bugle badge it does not translate easily to 1st VB and 2nd VB stringed bugle badges shown on slouch hats in the Boer War. These badges must have been adopted earlier. The flat-topped QVC bugle badge would have been a guide and so maybe indeed there are VB badges that are QVC bugle style.

Until I find a badge or photo it is a theory only.

Trust this helps Andy.

cheers Dean.

[2747andy]

Thoughts on this one please? Missing the upper tablet and crown, it looks as though these have been intentionally removed rather than snapped off? Could it be an interim between QVC and KC, MC pattern badges? For FSC wear? or I'm I just looking at a broken badge?

Andy

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Thoughts on this one please? Missing the upper tablet and crown, it looks as though these have been intentionally removed rather than snapped off? Could it be an interim between QVC and KC, MC pattern badges? For FSC wear? or I'm I just looking at a broken badge?

Andy

It could be a busby badge with the crown worn on the cord boss above. Officers of the 3rd VB East Surrey Regiment wore similar.

[mooke07]

Hi Andy,

You pose a good question with this badge as perhaps being an intentional between QVC/KC badge. I have never seen such a badge but it is plausible IMO. It would be super to turn up photographic proof of it being worn and I have had a good look through the photographic records on line from the Durham County records but the majority of the photographs are of home service helmet plates with VB plates.

I should think that if it worries you unduly then perhaps consigning it to the colonies would be an option ! Maybe I can follow up with you after a certain rugby match.

Thanks for showing the badge, all the best, Dean.

[Toby Purcell]

My theory (and it is just a theory) is that the bugle style badges were introduced as a better configuration for the field service cap that began a phased issue for other ranks around 1895-97. At first regulars were told to use either, a collar badge or part shoulder title, but I think that VBs, with their greater independence and ability to make local decisions, opted for the bugle designs that you have shortly after the accession of Edward VII. It's just a thought and I would be interested to learn others views. The VBs retained the FSC long after the regulars were forced into the Brodrick.