Irish Regiment of Canada

[Adam H]

Well, I know at least one of you will like these...

Below are my great-uncles officer's pattern caubeen badge and a collar badge. He was in the regiment during WWII - although tracing him has proven difficult!

Sadly, one of the collars has gone missing (before I inherited them).

The small silver badge is apparently from a swagger stick.

While the O/Rs pattern of the WWII/King's Crown badge are quite common, these officer pattern badges seem rather scarce on the ground.

Cheers,

Adam

[Pylon1357]

I do like this badge very much. Not something I get to see very often at all.
Here is a quick scan I found of some of my Irish Regiment of Canada Badges.

[Peter Brydon]

Adam and Pylon,

To me, this is one of the things that this Forum is all about seeing badges that you would not normally see ,even if you had all the published books on a subject.

P.B.

[Dwayne H]

.....an original distinguishing patch for the Irish Regiment of Canada. The unit didn't end up wearing them ( although there is apparently a picture somewhere with one guy wearing these patches) . Most units of the 5th Canadian Div wore distinguishing patches while in Italy....The Irish were one that didn't, although I haven't been able to find out why.

Dwayne
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[Bill A]

Sooo Dwayne, the mortgage on your new house .... in exchange for...
Thanks for posting the image of tha 5th Cdn Armd Div IRISH R formation patch. Perhaps a one off, and certainly a rare rare piece of Canadian cloth.
The patching system of the 5th CAD needs some more research. It is odd that the other regiments of the division wore distinguishing patches unique to their regiment, while the Irish wore the generic division patch.
In addition, there needs to be some work done on the succession of cloth shoulder titles. I have evidence of the yellow/gold on dark green shoulder title being worn by early 1945, but have not been able to get much on the other issues.
Good to "see" you on the site.

[GregN]

Very nice guys. Here's a quick question. When there are distinct left and right collar badges , which way do they face? bugles apparently face mouthpiece to the centre but what about beavers? Do they face head in ot head out? Is there a general rule based on heraldry or it it a animal free-for-all (based on regimental tradition).

Greg

[Bill A]

Greg, The general rule is that collars should face inwards. In some instances, the opposites were not available or not made, and, especially in the CEF, one can find the same collars on both sides.

[Pylon1357]

The general rule Bill A has mentioned is correct, however there are always exceptions to this rule. The Irish Regiment of Canada wear their collars the way Dwayne has mounted his, facing outward.

Somewhere in my Diary notes, I came across a comment by the author stating that the new shoulder flashes arrived and are very smart looking. As yet I have not located the statement but I am still looking. Further to the Irish Regiment of Canada, I have examined the Dress Regulations for the Regiment and found them not helpful in the least.

[Bill A]

Cliff, Interesting point here. The harp as an instrument is made up of the soundbox and the pillar or column, capped by the harmonic arch or neck. The "column" in the Irish harp is the lady, and the soundbox is the inside as viewed piece. The harp player would be seated behind the soundbox. Now the point arises, it is properly the soundbox side that faces in, as the operating part of the instrument, and thus the decorative side of the harp, the lady faces out. The lady (my apologies for not knowing her name), is decorative and the critical side of the harp, the soundboard, is the inside as viewed? In some harps, the column is missing, but there must always be the soundbox side.
The essence of this, is that even though it appears the Irish collars face out, they are in fact proper, with the busines part of the instrument facing in?

[Peter Brydon]

Bill,
I can see where you are coming from ,but the collars facing outwards seems to only apply to The Irish Regiment of Canada.

I suppose they ( Irish Regiment of Canada ) could be strictly correct from an heraldic point of view and all others using similar collars incorrect but if this is followed to its logical conclusion the the cap badge should be the same as the right hand collar ( looking at the wearer ) as it is in every other case except where non facing collars are worn( a British example being the Liverpool Pals) and so the the cap badge could be said to be facing the wrong way. If you follow what I am saying


P.B.

I have always thought the figure is the Maid of Erin,sometimes referred to as the Angel harp. Is this right ?

[Bill A]

Thanks P.B., Certainly more to consider regarding the Irish collars. Very informative. Upon further research, it appears the other units with Canadian Irish connections wore the collars in the opposite soundbox orientation to the Irish Regiment 1933 pattern. The Irish Canadian Rangers wore their collars with the soundbox facing outwards on both sides, as did the earlier pre 1932 pattern of the Irish Regiment of Canada collars. (according to Mazeas Canadian Badges 1920-1950). The CEF Irish battalions that used the harp in the badge design appear to have only had collars with the soundbox oriented to the right as viewed. (Eg Both collars have the same orientation.)

An additional comment about the 5th CAD patches for the infantry regiments. The Westminster Regiment, IV PLDG's and the Lanark & Renfrew Scottish were formed into the 12 Infantry Bde in July of 1944 (until March 1945). Two of the units, the Plugs and L&R Scots did not have the regimentally designated 5th CAD patches.

[John Mulcahy]

Peter

Indeed you are right the type of Harp used by the Irish Regiment of Canada is a "Maid of Erin Harp" where as the type of Harp worn by the Royal Irish (18th) Rgt, The Connaught Rangers on their forage caps is a "Brian Boru Harp".

John

[dragonz18]

Just a quick question here........ is there any instance where a Canadian Irish unit,in the dim past ,would have used the initials RIR on a badge? ( not the British, 'Royal Irish Regt.' or 'Royal Irish Rifles', in this particular case.)

Cheers !
Steve

[Pylon1357]

Certainly not the Irish Regiment of Canada.

To the best of my knowledge (and I stand to be corrected) I have never seen any Canadian Irish Regiment or unit using the RIR initals. Is is possible to see the badge in question? There is something in the back of my mind about the 199th?? Irish Rangers during WWI era.

[Bill A]

I agree with Cliff. There was never such a title worn by the Irish regiments of the Canadian army.