Framed with Feeling!

[Mike Jackson]

Check the caption. I assume that the person who had these framed was onboard at the time!
20140129_lot0581-0.jpg

[Donny B.]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Check the caption. ............Attachment 99286

It looks like a lovely collection of photos but unfortunately the caption was not clear enough for my old eyes.

I Man

[Mike Jackson]

Apologies. Does this help?
20140129_lot0581-02.jpg

[tonyb]

Cracking photographs, the caption a sign of the times, like Guy Gibsons dog.
Tony.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by tonyb

Cracking photographs, the caption a sign of the times, like Guy Gibsons dog.
Tony.

I believe that the one overwhelming advantage that the few British carriers had over the many USN vessels was that they had an armoured, steel flight deck - the USN carriers had wooden decks. The result being that despite collateral damage, the kamikazes bounced off the flight decks of RN vessels.

[Sunray9]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Apologies. Does this help?
Attachment 99293

Incidentally, there used to be three British inventions on nearly all aircraft carriers -

Armoured Flight deck
Angled Flight Deck
Steam catapult.

[LONGSHANKS]

Truth be known, the British invented the aircraft carrier along with those specific invention's.

The one thing that has always pissed me off. Living over here and watching the History Channel etc. Any program concerning the Pacific and Okinawa, the Yank's never mention at all that the British had a large contingent and of course never mention that our carriers were better - the armored decks as mentioned. I was once told over here " you guys never had to contend with the Jap Kamikaze's like we did"........

The Pacific to the Americans was a 100% American contribution and win. They never mention Burma, Thailand, Imphal and Kohima etc etc.

And yes, of course Errol Flynn won the war in Burma......even back then this America centric win irritated many.....

ref Wkki

Even though it was based on the exploits of Merrill's Marauders, Objective Burma was withdrawn from release in the United Kingdom after it infuriated British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and drew protests about the Americanization of an almost entirely British, Indian and Commonwealth conflict. An editorial in The Times said:

It is essential both for the enemy and the Allies to understand how it came about that the war was won ... nations should know and appreciate the efforts other countries than their own made to the common cause.

The film was not put on general release in the UK until 1952 when it was shown with an accompanying apology. The movie was also banned in Singapore although it was seen in Burma and India.

We are much maligned over here for having our arse saved......

Simon

[jubilationtcornpone]

Good morning,

Great set of pictures. Contrast these with pictures of the USS Franklin and USS Bunker Hill post Kamikaze hits. US carriers were built to carry the maximum number of aircraft which precluded an armored flight deck. When you call the tune eventually you pay the piper.

I find the History Channel is often historical fiction. An honest look at the American war effort, especially in the early part after America's entry, is not flattering. Unfortunately many accept its offerings as gospel.

Errol Flynn was Australian. Objective Burma was as historically accurate as They Died With Their Boots On and the one about The Charge of the Light Brigade, fun to watch but historical nonsense.

If I didn't have an appreciation for you Brits I would not be collecting your badges and would not be a member of this forum. Said in a sprit of friendship, not to antagonize.

Don

[Old Smelly]

Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS

c.

We are much maligned over here for having our arse saved......

Simon

I'm sure the Commonwealth had more manpower involved than the US did, especially in the Far East. The US did supply a vast amount of supplies and equipment though, which greatly helped the war effort but they didn't do it for free.

Lee

[LONGSHANKS]

Originally Posted by jubilationtcornpone

Good morning,

Great set of pictures. Contrast these with pictures of the USS Franklin and USS Bunker Hill post Kamikaze hits. US carriers were built to carry the maximum number of aircraft which precluded an armored flight deck. When you call the tune eventually you pay the piper.

I find the History Channel is often historical fiction. An honest look at the American war effort, especially in the early part after America's entry, is not flattering. Unfortunately many accept its offerings as gospel.

Errol Flynn was Australian. Objective Burma was as historically accurate as They Died With Their Boots On and the one about The Charge of the Light Brigade, fun to watch but historical nonsense.

If I didn't have an appreciation for you Brits I would not be collecting your badges and would not be a member of this forum. Said in a sprit of friendship, not to antagonize.

Don

Couldn't agree anymore Don, but it does get irritating when 99% of the Americans I've met in 19 years have this opinion. It seems your in the 1%, and very welcome you are. Can you believe I've been told on some occasions that they weren't aware that Great Britain fought the Japanese........

The American centric winning of the war goes further than the three you mentioned, and in an era when they should know better. Try watching U-571. Total fiction and the fact was that a British sub captured the enigma codes and machine.
And now the new movie the Monument Men. A film on how the US reclaimed stolen art and treasure. When in fact it was a British academic who did it with a British team. But there is a token Brit in it i suppose.......

Anyway, my comment was not meant to offend Don and not as you say to antagonize, so don't take it that way. I just imagine the chap that took the pics in the frame above had much to say on his "minimal" action at Okinawa.

Cheers and all the best

Simon.

[jubilationtcornpone]

Simon,

I apologize if I gave the impression that you meant to antagonize. No offense was taken on my part. I haven't seen the pictures you mention. I have toured the U505 in Chicago and don't think that story can be improved upon. I'm not familiar with the story of the art recovery film. More history to learn. For those who like numbers 25% of the naval forces scheduled to invade Japan were to be British and/or Commonwealth. Given the numbers involved this was a sizable force. Of the 91 divisions fielded by the US during the war 22 served in the Pacific, plus 6 marine divisions. None were in the CBI. Merrill's Marauders was a reinforced regiment, a trifle in the grand scheme of things. The US deployment of forces between Europe and the Pacific was a constant bone of contention among the Combined Chiefs of Staff. If it had been left to Ernest King, USN, the main American effort would have been in the Pacific. A book should be written about the personalities on the CCS.

I don't know what the causality count was on the British carrier. On the 2 American carriers I mentioned above the combined KIA count was well over 1500. Enough said about the benefits of an armored flight deck.

Regards,

Don

[Nozzer]

H.M.S. Formidable, "The ship that launched herself"

Originally Posted by jubilationtcornpone

I don't know what the causality count was on the British carrier

Eight killed and forty seven wounded.

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS

Try watching U-571. Total fiction and the fact was that a British sub captured the enigma codes and machine.

H.M.S. Bulldog, commanded by Commander A. J Baker-Cresswell captured the first enigma machine from U-110, commanded by Fritz Julius Lemp in may 1941. Lemp was responsible for the sinking of the "Athenia" in september 1939 with U-30.

[jubilationtcornpone]

Whatever became of Lemp?

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by jubilationtcornpone

Whatever became of Lemp?

There is a little confusion around his death. Some say that he was shot while trying to get back aboard his boat on seeing that it wasn't sinking. Another that he took his own life. The truth is that he was concussed during one of the depth charge attacks that crippled his boat. At some point after surfacing Lemp ended up in the water and drowned.

Whatever happened, he died that day.

"Bulldog" and "Aubretia" attempted to tow the damaged U boat, but she foundered two days later.

U-110 suffered 15 lost with 32 taken prisoner.