Royal Medical Army Corps Collar Question

[dubaiguy]

I'm trying to put together a small collection of Royal Army Medical Corps cap and collar badges (because a/ I like the design, b/ they are relatively inexpensive & c/ readily available). I admit though that apart from getting the odd jag a lifetime ago, I really know nothing about the corps and my interest is purely on collecting the badge.

I have shown some examples in the first scan. The collars are slightly smaller than the cap being approx 34mm versus 42mm in length.

So my dilemma is what are the two badges at the bottom of the second scan? I think I have two absolutely matching OSD collars. But they are 42mm and thus the same size as the caps shown on the top line.

Do I have two matching collars or two caps badges.

Any direction would be appreciated.

Mark

[iain]

Hi Mark .
I think you have a pair of collars also. when the officers service dress uniform was introduced i believe collar badges were described as - as cap badge , meaning same size, i think many were reduced in size c. 1914.
No doubt someone will correct me if i have made a error.
Iain

[2747andy]

Mark,
if in an OSD finish with lugs, then 99.999999% of the time they are collar badges even if the same size as the cap badge.

Andy

[Milmed]

Hi Mark,
I also collect RAMC and will post pictures and info later today. The bronze pair of officers badges are in deed officers collars and were same size as cap. The officers cap badge is differentiated from collars by having blades instead of looped 'lugs'.

Regards
Steven

[Milmed]

Mark,
The OSD bronze badge on your second scan with blades (top right) is the officers cap that was worn with the OSD collars you have below. I have what appears to be a pair of smaller size OSD collars and I assume these to be c.WWII

It appears the NCO g/m badges had smaller collar badges (both with snakes facing in the same direction as the cap. These can be seen in your first scan with the QVC set. There are also KC sets like this. RAMC NCO during WWI did not wear collar badges (photographic evidence).

With adoption of the latin scroll (IN ARDUIS FIDELIS) badges c.1950, the collars had facing snakes. Officers in silver/gilt. NCO in white metal and g/m.
Later NCO's in anodised.

I have attached pictures of my RAMC badges. I do have a few more titles in g/m and worsted cloth (black on khaki and white on khaki); various WWI g/m cap badges with sliders (must be many variations of this design); and some RAMC(V) silvered officers collars that I have not scanned yet.

Enjoy
Steven

[dubaiguy]

Thanks Ian and Andy for your replies, very much appreciated. I can live with 0.00001% doubt.

Steven thanks for sharing your collection. Looks like I have some work to do to catch up with you (though like you I do have others that I did not scan). A shame that the, now confirmed, OSD collars are a slightly darker shade of chocolate to the cap, but at least it's a set.

Now though you have set me on a mission to find the smaller WWII OSD collars.

I do remember your earlier reply, a couple of months back, to a member's question on when the snakes became facing and had made a note at the time. But thanks for confirming again.

Cheers
Mark

[Milmed]

Hi Mark,
These have taken me a while to accumulate and there are more I am still looking for, but presantly not actively hunting for them. I also collect RADC and Army Nursing Insignia.

Here is one more I did not attach yesterday. This one is one of my 'prize' badges. It is a Medical Staff crossbelt badge. The 'Medical Staff' title is pretty hard to find as it was removed from the uniform when the Medical Staff became Medical Department and then the star was worn on its own.

Steven

[fougasse1940]

Is there any logic as to why some RAMC badges have a silver scroll and gilt serpent, and others have both the scroll and serpent silvered? I have seen this on all different badges excluding the QVC badges which always seem to have the scroll and serpent in silver:
KC "RAMC" scroll (even with the scroll, serpent and rod of Aesculapius silver), KC "in arduis fidelis" scroll,
QC "in arduis fidelis" scroll
and AA QC "in arduis fidelis" scroll.

Regards,

Thomas.

[Milmed]

Hi Thomas,
Officers silver/gilt badges have silver snake and scroll.
NCO bi-metal badges have white metal scroll and gilding metal snake.

Anodised however have both silver anodised and gilt anodised snakes. These are both for NCO's with the silver snake version produced after the gilt anodised snake version. Not sure of exact dates.

Steven

[fougasse1940]

Thanks very much Steven, I learned something new here. I'm sure those AA dates will turn up in Hagwalter's book.
Does this mean there are also QVC NCO badges with just the scroll in silver?

Rgds,

Thomas.

[Alan O]

I have never heard of any NCOs badge before. I have always believed that the difference in snakes is a date thing not a rank thing. The a/a with gold snake came first and then the current a/a with silver snake. Hagwalther's book will probably provide a date for the change in pattern for a/a.

[fougasse1940]

I was under the same impression, but all the different pre-A/A badges can't be all factory mistakes, it just doesn't add up...

Rgds,

Thomas.

[dubaiguy]

Alan
I agree with you completely for a/a badges.

But in my limited experience on bi-metal (and silver/gilt) badges, I have only seen a silver scroll and serpent on officer's badges. OR's appear to have a gilding snake.

I have only just started collecting RAMC, so have a lot to learn and if there is a silver sepent/scroll OR's badge in anything but a/a or new improved metal, it'll be going on my wants list.

Cheers
Mark

[dubaiguy]

Have I deduced correctly that every medic has an NCO rank and that is why Steven refers to an Officer/NCO difference in the badge?

Am I being a bit slow not knowing that?

Mark

[Alan O]

actually medics start off as privates so theya re not all NCOs. I would be interested to see the bimetal badge with the silver snake.