4 CLY Sharpshooters - That cap badge.

[ANGLE IRON]

That was a nice set, I did some reading about the fourth in Normandy after getting the collar badge , it is very interesting , looks like this officer may have updated his cap badge perhaps in 44 but hung on to his collars to the fourth.
I can't help but empathise with them coming up against Wittman and his tiger's
armed with Shermans. Kevin

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi Peter, as this is a Gaunt badge there would be no need to cast one. Whilst they were in England they would have been readily available and they were only a few weeks in Europe. For this reason I have been suspicious of any cast Gaunt badge, and you your badge is a casting of the Gaunt officer's badge. I think you may have answered your question in that it is a casting of the CLY badge which was readily available post-war. Most of the cast badges are usually typical N. African manufacture, any others I am again rather suspicious of. Hope you are well, Mike

Hello Mike,

The white metal 'CLY' badge was used by 3 CLY from 1939-1944 and by 3/4 CLY from 1944-1961.

There appears to many forms including cast, pressed, with lugs, with sliders, in the field with slim CLY and even with a queens crown. I have a dozen examples some of which will be restrikes and fakes for sure.

I attach here images of my cast Gaunt example which I believe to be genuine ...but who knows?





I am trying to establish the probability that my 4 CLY badge posted, a modified Gaunt 3 CLY it would seem, is an 'in service' personal conversion, perhaps due to the known dearth of production 4 CLY badges, as a opposed to a post WWII fake to satisfy the collector market.

The question I would ask if a fake, is why change the lug orientation from East-West to North-South and colour it dark bronze?

Are there possibly officer quality badges out there that I am not yet aware of ?

PeterA

[silverwash]

I acquired the BD and beret when Adam was a lad. At the time I considered them not to be the run of the mill items.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

That cap badge, I can think of an expletive to put in the middle.

The more I see and read about this badge, the more I'm convinced the 'full size' 4 in nickel and worn in the cap/beret only existed as an officers badge..

Keith

The more I see examples of this badge the more I share your opinion that there was no official issue of this badge but that the regt adulterated existing CLY badges themselves. Officers bought their own badges so they could commission what they wanted. This of course presents the problem of what is a contempory locally made or adulterated CLY badge and what has been produced since then.

Alan

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by silverwash

I acquired the BD and beret when Adam was a lad. At the time I considered them not to be the run of the mill items.

As an ex Sharpshooter ('59-'64) and sole regiment collector I can only admire... green with envy.

According to the book the collars are 3CLY (1939-1944) or 3/4CLY (1944-1961).

The beret badge appears to be a 4CLY collar. Can you please confirm the height of the badge at 1.3"?

Thank you for posting.

PeterA

[silverwash]

you are correct with your dimension. in old money as well, 1 5/16 ". the application of the badge doesn't appear to have been adulterated in any way as there are only two narrow spaced piercings. the beret is a Kangol but the markings are pretty worn out.

[Old Smelly]

Nice set. Was the green band on the beret only worn by 4th?

Lee

[cavalryman]

hi lee, the band around the beret was also worn by the 3rd/4th county of London yeomanry (sharpshooters). regards john

[silverwash]

collar and cap badge as worn. collar Lt.I.F.Melville, cap Lt.Col. A.A.Cameron

[Alan O]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...944._B5682.jpg

And one of the 4th in Normandy pre amalgamation.

Both large and small collar badges are in use. The 4 is visible on the full sized badge.

[Rockape]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Both large and small collar badges are in use. The 4 is visible on the full sized badge.

The photo shows a Cromwell VI cruiser tank with bivouac attached. Only about 300 of these were made, armed with the 95mm gun mainly used for smoke missions. The unit at this time were part of 22nd Armoured Brigade / 7th Armoured Division.

The caption on the photograph dates it as 17th June. If this accurate, the unit would have been recovering / refitting after SS-Obersturmführer (Lieutenant) Michael Wittmann and his buddies (SS Hvy Tank Bn 101) had destroyed 53 armoured vehicles in and around Villers Bocage.

[ANGLE IRON]

Officers embroidered beret badge with green backing.

[lettman]

Would someone please give me a summary of the points to look for in a 'good' 4th County of London Yeomanry cap badge? Or, if as I suspect, the topic has been covered already in the Forum, where to look? Thanks for any assistance.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by lettman

Would someone please give me a summary of the points to look for in a 'good' 4th County of London Yeomanry cap badge? Or, if as I suspect, the topic has been covered already in the Forum, where to look? Thanks for any assistance.

OR’s beret, the small collar sized badge the the stylised hand cut white metal 4 overlay with a Hall makers mark.

Officers, die cast with a fairly clear Gaunt mark, thicker overlay with a distinct slope on the left hand side of the horizontal bar of the 4.

No photos to hand but they have been posted on here before. Do a search for Denzil Mortimer and they may come up.

[PeterA]

The short lived full size cap badge is a rare item and expect to pay in excess of £200 for a genuine example from a professional dealer.

It was scarce in service with collar and 'in theatre' manufactured items being common substitutes.

This is a genuine example and note the bevel on the intersection on the '4' of the diagonal with the base.



Several parties have replicated the badge with varying degrees of quality but even the best copies have a square end to the horizontal on the '4', seen here.



PeterA - Sharpshooter