British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Infantry (& Guards) Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29-04-08, 05:27 AM
jeanpit-frenchy's Avatar
jeanpit-frenchy jeanpit-frenchy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DUNKERQUE
Posts: 675
Default Tyneside Irish Shoulder Title

This title come a friend french collectionner, for me is genuine (it is the brother in arms of the title of my friend, now not 100% certain !!!! )

but it come from FRANCE, not GB, my friend is extremely suspicious with items who come from GB ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg c1436-k1138-g22.JPG (20.5 KB, 147 views)
File Type: jpg c1436-k1138-g22-.JPG (24.6 KB, 163 views)
File Type: jpg c1436-k1138-g22--.JPG (23.6 KB, 212 views)

Last edited by Alan O; 23-08-08 at 09:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-04-08, 05:31 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 3,027
Default

JP
is there any mention of reid and son?

Last edited by Alan O; 23-08-08 at 09:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-04-08, 06:47 AM
Malcolm Davey's Avatar
Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,597
Default

Shadows hmmmm

denfinately no voids either side of the Bays and the "V" in GVR , the right side is definately soild joined to the "R" when there should be voids both sides of the "V".
Definate restrikes IMO

Malc
__________________
http://www.watlingmilitaria.com/



Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover.

Last edited by Malcolm Davey; 30-04-08 at 12:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29-04-08, 07:18 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Halls View Post
JP
is there any mention of reid and son?
Jean-Pit,

When the Battalion were raised at the start of WW1 they decided to have their own shoulder titles made under private arrangements. These were this badge. They ordered them from the firm of Reid and Son so the first issue have their name along the back of the harp. Later issues were not marked. It was long thought that these were cap badges, (and are shown as such in Gaylor and K&K) but work by some well repscted historians (from memory Ray Westlake in particular) has produced photgraphic evidence that they were indeed part of the s/t and the Bns wore the standard NF cap badge.

I wold add that any with sliders are without doubt repro.


Alan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29-04-08, 07:35 AM
jeanpit-frenchy's Avatar
jeanpit-frenchy jeanpit-frenchy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DUNKERQUE
Posts: 675
Default

thank you

but no maker "Reid and son" on my title

Last edited by Alan O; 23-08-08 at 09:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29-04-08, 09:00 PM
Faugh-A-Ballagh's Avatar
Faugh-A-Ballagh Faugh-A-Ballagh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
Posts: 723
Post Tyneside Irish Battalions

Did the Tyneside Irish pals battalions wear the Northumberland Fusiliers cap badge with Tyneside Irish shoulder titles, or did they have their own cap badge? I see supposed Tyneside Irish badges regularly advertised, but in my limited knowledge, I'm not sure if there was such a thing. No doubt original items are virtually unobtainable due to the heavy losses incurred by these battalions in WW1. Did the Tyneside Irish name live on in any unit designation after WW1, or was that the end of them? I know there will be someone here who can answer this.

John
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-04-08, 09:12 PM
John Mulcahy's Avatar
John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,220
Default

The Tyneside Irish battalions of the Northumberland Fusiliers wore the regular NF Cap badge with a 3 part shoulder title that consisted of the tara harp badge with the battalion numeral above and the regular NF title below. Officers in SD wore regular NF collars and officially rank and file in service dress did not wear collars. NF buttons were worn

Despite many comments to the contrary the harp badge was not worn on the cap. There is plenty of photographic evidence to support this in sources such as Irish Heros in the War, Sheehan's The Tyneside Irish edition of the Pals series and in Our Heros.

You do see some studio portraits where O/R are wearing unofficial crowned harp collars and less so the harp portion of the shoulder title .

Sheehans book has a photo of a color party of one of the battalions parading through Newcastle Shortly after the war and the NCOs in the color party wear the unofficial crowned harp badge on the collars of their SD.

Earlier today there was a reply to another thread which correctly pointed out that the initial orders for the harp badge of the shoulder title was to REID and sons in Newcastle.

I do not believe their memory was perpetuated in any unit after disbandment.

John

Last edited by John Mulcahy; 30-04-08 at 01:07 AM. Reason: case correction
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-04-08, 09:17 PM
Faugh-A-Ballagh's Avatar
Faugh-A-Ballagh Faugh-A-Ballagh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
Posts: 723
Default Tyneside Irish

Thanks John. I saw an OR's uniform in a museum on my WW1 battlefield tour last summer, and it had the collar badges as you describe, and the NF cap badge. I just wondered if this was correct or not. I must try and source a few of these books.

John
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30-04-08, 06:29 AM
jeanpit-frenchy's Avatar
jeanpit-frenchy jeanpit-frenchy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DUNKERQUE
Posts: 675
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mulcahy View Post
The Tyneside Irish battalions of the Northumberland Fusiliers wore the regular NF Cap badge with a 3 part shoulder title that consisted of the tara harp badge with the battalion numeral above and the regular NF title below. Officers in SD wore regular NF collars and officially rank and file in service dress did not wear collars. NF buttons were worn


John
thank you for this help i dont know that ....for me (little frenchy ) the title was only the tara harp !!
please can you help me more ? the "NF" was only the WESTLAKE n759 with or without the grenade upon ? or a patern like "N-grenade-F" ?
the numeral ? like tyneside scottish (1, 2, 3, 4) ? color ? (WM or gilding )

than you for this help

cheers

Last edited by jeanpit-frenchy; 30-04-08 at 08:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30-04-08, 11:59 AM
John Mulcahy's Avatar
John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,220
Default

JeanPit

Here is what they look like. Alas this one is not in my collection. Numerals were 24, 25, 26 , 27 & 30

John

with regard to the harp badge, consensus among collectors is that the loops should be east & west and that those with loops north & south are probably reproductions. But no proof exists other than the fact that the original Reid batch had the e & w positions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ti1.jpg (19.6 KB, 141 views)
File Type: jpg ti2.jpg (17.9 KB, 146 views)

Last edited by John Mulcahy; 30-04-08 at 12:03 PM. Reason: added details on loop positions
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 30-04-08, 02:14 PM
jeanpit-frenchy's Avatar
jeanpit-frenchy jeanpit-frenchy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DUNKERQUE
Posts: 675
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mulcahy View Post
JeanPit

Here is what they look like. Alas this one is not in my collection. Numerals were 24, 25, 26 , 27 & 30

John

with regard to the harp badge, consensus among collectors is that the loops should be east & west and that those with loops north & south are probably reproductions. But no proof exists other than the fact that the original Reid batch had the e & w positions.
thank you for help....

i had "NF" but i think il will be hard to found "24" or "25" etc .....

but with luke !!!!

cheers
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-06-08, 01:09 PM
peter616
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Tyneside Irish Should Title, comes with Reed Newcastle and without Reed newcastle I have just bought a nice medal group to a guy in the 25th battalion which is 25 over the harp over NF the center badge has not got Reed Newcastle on, this has just come from a guy whos mother died and found that this were his Grandads medals, yes Alan I agree that if you ever see one with a slider on it is a wrong one.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-06-08, 04:00 PM
tynesideirish's Avatar
tynesideirish tynesideirish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,125
Default

I have family connections with this unit, hence my username. I've been lucky enough to have met a large number of these veterens when a boy and here is the real deal, no doubts, if's or but's.

Officially Shoulder titles combination.
Though harp only, seen as collars unofficially (see the T.I book by John Sheen.)
NEVER worn on cap. Normal Northumberland Fusiliers badges where worn.
The other battalions numerals 24, 25, 26, 27, 30 were the only variation / difference throughout the brigade.

Anything else lug configeration, or slider, or makerless should be regarded as suspect at best outright fake at worst.
Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 24_Tyneside_Irish_Makers_mark.jpg (15.9 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5010.jpg (69.1 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5011.jpg (45.9 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5012.jpg (50.0 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5013.jpg (46.6 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by tynesideirish; 06-06-08 at 04:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-06-08, 04:27 PM
tynesideirish's Avatar
tynesideirish tynesideirish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,125
Default

Here's some more for clarity. Please feel free to copy these photos they are mine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN5015.jpg (41.3 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5017.jpg (61.6 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5021.jpg (65.0 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5296.jpg (58.2 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5297.jpg (58.4 KB, 75 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-06-08, 04:30 PM
tynesideirish's Avatar
tynesideirish tynesideirish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,125
Default

Last couple so no excuses in future! Grin.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN5298.jpg (99.6 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN5299.jpg (70.1 KB, 96 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tyneside irish

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.