Royal Engineers Band 1939/1940

[daverpol]

I've just came across some more photos of my Uncle in the Royal Engineers band.
The first one is Whitney? 1939, second one is Halton 1940.

I can't help noticing the variety of uniform styles worn on the first photo.

[peter4447]

Hi Daverpol
A couple of very interesting photos.
Was your Uncle serving in the Royal Engineers Band as a regular, as neither photo gives the impression that this was a regular RE Band. The one in Witney certainly has one member wearing what appears to be a cavalry uniform and the different styles of dress and the instrumentation being used certainly gives the impression that this was a Territorial Band.
Regards
Peter4447

[daverpol]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for your comments.

Unfortunately, I know very little about my Uncle.
All I know is that he was at Dunkirk in 1940 & killed in action at El Alamein in 1942 with 505th Field Company, Royal Engineers.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_...sualty=2211648

I've really no idea if he was a Territorial or Regular, maybe I'll have to add to my family history & try & get copies of his Service Record.
I was interested in your mention of a member of the band wearing a Cavalry uniform, you must have better eyesight than I have, which one is he?

Interesting to see the badge on your avatar, I'm currently researching my Grandad's brother who was killed in action in 1916 with 10th Battalion, Yorkshire Regiment.

Best Regards,
Dave.

[peter4447]

Hi Dave
I must apologise over my mistake - just had another look at the Witney photo and the chap I thought was cavalry isn't. He standing 4th from left (as you look at it) and what I thought was a blue jacket with a different colour collar and cavalry chain epaulettes, is actually a pad of music on a music stand that he is standing behind. My only excuse is that it was difficult to see on a scan!
The more I look at both photos the more convinced I am that these are Territorials. Certainly there are very few woodwind instruments, it is nearly all brass and the music stands are lightweight and the type that would normally be associated with a civilian brass band rather than heavy duty Army ones.
As you have mentioned there are also very different standards of dress - some for example are wearing collar dogs but not all and there are quite a few 'elderly gents' as band members in both photos.
The Musical Director is interesting in the Halton photo as he appears to be wearing a decoration as his first medal.
My avatar was a simple choice - I was very fortunate to have served for a number of years as the Solo Euphonium player with the 1st Battalion Band (sadly the Band went in 1994 and the 19th is now the 2nd Bn The Yorkshire Regiment).
Kind regards
Peter

[daverpol]

Hi Peter,

Thanks again for your comments.
Looking at the photos again & reading your comments makes me agree with the possibility of them being Territorials.
I'll have to try for his Service Record, as I mentioned earlier I know very little about him. Apart from the photos, I have his cap badge & medals which were passed onto my Father. We also received his "Dunkirk Medal" & certificate from the Mayor of Dunkerque. They should make a very attractive display once I can locate a close up photo of him. Maybe I'll have to crop & enlarge from one of those I've posted.

I've also posted a close up of the Halton Musical Director that you mention.
Other older band members are wearing what look to be WW1 groups but I'm having trouble identifying the Directors medals. His first one looks like an O.B.E. or similar.

[peter4447]

Hi Dave
A lovely group - pure guesswork on my part but how about MBE, India General Service Medal 1908 (with bars) an unidentified Long Service and Special Constabulary Long Service.
I think you are going to enjoy researching your Uncle because the photos throw up some interesting questions.
I believe that 505 Field Regiment RE was part of the Division of your avatar which could account for the Territorial connection if this was the unit he was serving in at the start of the War.
Clinch & Co definately had a brewery in Witney, Oxfordshire (their sign is in the background) and it looks like the band are carrying respirators which would date the photo probably around September 1939. We then have the Band (and it looks like the same Musical Director in both photos) in 1940 at Halton up near Runcorn and between these two photos being taken your Uncle had gone to France and been evacuated at Dunkirk in May 1940. My guess is that the Halton photo is a Territorial Summer Camp and was taken earlier than 1940 - probably in 1938 or 1939.
I find this sort of research fascinating and will certainly let you know if I find out anything more on the Band.
Kind regards
Peter

[daverpol]

Hi Peter,

Thanks again for all the information.
Your comments on the Halton photo had me thinking. My Uncle was born in 1920, so if he joined the Territorials when he was 18 the photo could be his first annual camp which would put it in 1938. Looking at his photo he does look young.
I've also enlarged another fine looking medal group.

Finally getting my brain cells to work, I remembered that during the late 1950's & 60's my Dad was a member of the band at 103 (Tyne Electrical Engineers) Squadron R.E (V) based at Jarrow.
It's looking highly likely that as it was a local unit, this is also the same Territorial unit that my Uncle was a member of.

Best Regards,
Dave.

[grey_green_acorn]

There is a Halton Camp near Lancaster which has been used by Territorial Army units since WW1. I spent a weekend there (as a cadet) with 5 KING'S in 1966.

[daverpol]

That's exactly where it is GGA! Halton, Lancaster.
It must run in the family, my Uncle was there in 1938 with the RE (V) band, my Dad was there with the RE (V) band in 1958 & yours truly in 1985 with 105 Plant Squadron RE (V) in our "Fast Assault Boat"

[Vincent]

A Royal Enginners cap badge found by myself on Dunkirk's beach, in the 80's...

[pronto105]

have a look at http://fort105.co.uk/
it all 105 you should be able to recognise people and maybe your self

[daverpol]

Thanks for that Pronto.
I recognize qute a lot of faces on the site & can remember the occasions when the photos were taken. I'm even on a couple of them myself.
I must say in defence though, not all our activities included alcohol!

[engr9266]

Originally Posted by daverpol

Thanks for that Pronto.
I recognize qute a lot of faces on the site & can remember the occasions when the photos were taken. I'm even on a couple of them myself.
I must say in defence though, not all our activities included alcohol!

What? Not ALL included alcohol? Were you not a "REAL" sapper then?? LOL