Motor Machine Gun Corps

[Mark Blackburn]

Hi everyone,
I picked this badge up a few years ago from Bosleys, it was in a bag of Machine Gun Corps items e.g officers badges, titles and collars. My main concern is it's rather crude construction, I've obtained restrike copies of this badge to compare it against and to be honest the restrikes are totally different in appearance and construction. Any thoughts please.

http://www.priory-photodesign.co.uk/MGC.jpg

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Mark Blackburn

Hi everyone,
I picked this badge up a few years ago from Bosleys, it was in a bag of Machine Gun Corps items e.g officers badges, titles and collars. My main concern is it's rather crude construction, I've obtained restrike copies of this badge to compare it against and to be honest the restrikes are totally different in appearance and construction. Any thoughts please.

The cap badge was designed by Major Phillip W Jupe DSO, who whilst at Hythe on a machine gun refresher course heard that the Motor Machine
Gun Service was to be formed under Lt Col RW Bradley DSO, South Wales Borderers.

On arrival at Bisley as Adjutant, he found the unit had no
regimental badge or any distinguishing emblem. To remedy this he designed a badge of crossed Vickers guns, surmounted by a crown over the letters “MMG”. The badges were made by a local firm and paid for out of
regimental funds.

There are dated picture postcards of MMGS men wearing such badges in early 1915 at Bisley. The Machine Gun Corps on formation adopted the badge without the letters, or “rocker” below. The Machine Gunners of the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division used the same badge with an “RND” rocker.

Your badge looks genuine to me. Later re-strikes do not have the tabs or ears where the title is soldered to the guns and appear as one piece.


Info from this site under link http://www.machinegun.pwp.blueyonder...01.01.2007.pdf 'MGC Pack'.

May I support Toby's comment regarding the method of fixing title to badge. It is the existence (or non existence) of fixing tabs which distinguishes original from fake. The tabs are generous and the first point to check on MMG and RND badges. No tabs - no pay big money ! Regards. David

[Jibba Jabba]

I`m just wondering about the design of the machine guns on this badge......arent the crossed machine guns more in the maxim style?

[Richard Fisher]

My first post on this forum but one i hope I can be helpful with.

The guns on the different cap badge are the Vickers 'Light-Pattern' Machine Gun (i.e. NOT the Maxim). They have the sight on the feedblock which was the original location of it as this is the commercial-type of gun. The British Service rear sight (the longer one on the rear cover) was put on the Mk. I Vickers when they were adopted by the British Army.

It is interesting to see this type of gun on the cap badge (and I have one in my collection) as those guns were never officially used by the British, other than for trials and development. This took place at Bisley and it is likely that the designer was basing his cap badge on these guns as they were what he was looking at.

I hope this is of use.

Regards

Richard

http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk

[Mike]

many moons ago we had an interesting thread on MGC badges which deviated into MMG

I showed these two: first I am sure is good , the second, with the MMG clagged on the front -initally thought it was duff, now just unsure .

[Diehard]

Originally Posted by David Douglas

May I support Toby's comment regarding the method of fixing title to badge. It is the existence (or non existence) of fixing tabs which distinguishes original from fake. The tabs are generous and the first point to check on MMG and RND badges. No tabs - no pay big money ! Regards. David

David,

they now fake them with tabs. However the ones I have seen are easy to spot as the crown looks wrong. Also they are fake aged. Wouldn't catch an experienced collector, but might, those new to the hobby & £35+ it would be an expensive lesson.

Will

So, does anyone have a lugged example of a restrike MMG badge ? Front 'clagged' yes, I accept that but I would like to see a lugged fake. Regards. David

[Ray6930]

Have attached picture of the RND one I picked - sorry the reverse isn't too sharp. It is quite finely attached at the R end but heavy solder or whatever at the other end - - Ray

[Alan O]

Ray

Unlike the MMG, these were not professionally made badges but locally constructed using MGC cap badges and RND shoulder titles.

Alan

[mtrpltpara]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Ray

Unlike the MMG, these were not professionally made badges but locally constructed using MGC cap badges and RND shoulder titles.

Alan

Presumably the RND titles would show signs of having loops removed?
Bill.

[dragonz18]

Bill,
you are correct. There are a variety of connections, but there should be signs of the origional lugs, either marks where they have been or neatly filed off. All the duds,& there are exceeding large amounts of these about,have no sign of previous fixings.
Cheers !
Steve

PS: the actual dud title is slightly different from origionals also.

[Ray6930]

Gents - I wouldn't have thought of that. Neither of the pictured MMG show signs of lug removal, presumably they were not converted shoulder titles? I have a second one of the RND ones, this time with lugs rather than slider. They seem very similar (the slider badges is slightly rounded with a distinct inward bow to the slider - almost as if it has been in use - but the overall metal/colouring between the two is distinctly different). Neither RND part shows sign of lug removal. Were the lugs not added after the title was made - and therefore a possibility of using the title before the lugs were added? -- Yours in total ignorance but with a severe case of curiosity and desire to learn - Ray

[TRT]

Drifting back to the RND theme here is a thread on the Great war Forum on this that may be of interest.


http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...=rnd+cap+badge

Regards

TRT