1st S.S. Brigade Shoulder Title?

[Arnhemjim]

Earlier this was miss-posted under Canadian Elite Forces.

Recently have had an intriguing query on my blog page which I would like to share on this forum. A French gentleman, named Christophe, had a question regarding the insigne on the arm of a statue of Bill Millin, Lord Lovat’s bagpiper on D-Day, which stands at the beach at Normandy.
The badge is a shoulder title stating [“1st S.S. Brigade”]. See included image of the statute showing the title over a circular Combined Operations insigne. In all of my reference sources I cannot find any other examples of this specific badge. Artistic license?
 Will certainly look forward to any and all comments from members of the forum.

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

[Drummajor]

1st Special Service Brigade.??

Phil.

[Mike B]

Artistic licence in my opinion
The query on CVA (I believe) has built up a 'head of steam' which could do with a wet towel being placed over it.
I see there are some informed comments from a member of this forum which appear to being ignored and it keeps rumbling on.
Next thing a repro merchant will be producing such a title and saying 'as per B Millin statue'.
Thanks for raising this Jim - but in 50 years of collecting - 30 Specialising in Commando insignia, many of which were informed through correspondence with veterans and collectors such as Len Whittaker - never has anyone even remotely mentioned such a badge.
Like most people I have lots to learn, but I think any resultant speculation would be dangerous.
Please feel free to cut and paste this response into your blog. I can provide my contact details if anyone wishes to take up the query directly,
All the best
Mike

[Belly]

This is the thread MIke kindly refers to on the CVA:
http://forum.commandoveterans.org/cd...8487CA437A1753

I lost the will to continue to respond. I 100% agree with Mike that this is artistic licence/a cock up. The part of the thread referring to removing Commando insignia before battle may have been true for some early pin prick raids, but is totally incorrect for D-Day. There are dozens of photos of both army and marine commandos clearly showing the regulation insignia of shoulder title above comb ops patches being worn on embarkation, storming the beaches and beyond.
That said I should retract that I thought he’d have worn a No 4 Commando title, but I don’t think Bill was ever actually in No 4. More likely it would just have been a plain unnumbered red on black, ‘commando’. But that is just an educated guess…
Cheers
Paul

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by Belly

This is the thread MIke kindly refers to on the CVA:
http://forum.commandoveterans.org/cd...8487CA437A1753

I lost the will to continue to respond. I 100% agree with Mike that this is artistic licence/a cock up. The part of the thread referring to removing Commando insignia before battle may have been true for some early pin prick raids, but is totally incorrect for D-Day. There are dozens of photos of both army and marine commandos clearly showing the regulation insignia of shoulder title above comb ops patches being worn on embarkation, storming the beaches and beyond.
That said I should retract that I thought he’d have worn a No 4 Commando title, but I don’t think Bill was ever actually in No 4. More likely it would just have been a plain unnumbered red on black, ‘commando’. But that is just an educated guess…
Cheers
Paul

Is that the same thread that was referred to as "rumbling on" etc.
It seems civilized and polite and not lengthy, is there another thread on the subject?

[Mike B]

Hi Leigh
Yes ... the term 'rumbling on' ... is not used to insinuate anything other than having content which is built around speculation. The CVA is in deed a polite and useful community which I am pleased to be a member of.
I had not realised the term would cause offence - it is perhaps a sign that as I grow older I perhaps loose tolerance. I am becoming a 'grumpy old man' just call me 'Victor' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNrLI3OBwg

Mike'

[Belly]

Yes that's the thread, referred to. It did feel like it rumbled on!

[leigh kitchen]

Ah, thanks, it didn't seem lengthy enough to be a rumbler but then as an interested "outsider" I just have to read it, not think through and formulate contributions.

[Arnhemjim]

Apologies, was not aware that 'Christophe' had already posed this same question over on the CVA Forum. Apparently he was not satisfied with the obvious depth and breath of expertise on that forum, so thought he would try my blog for a different perspective. Obvious artistic license taken by sculptor!

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by Mike B

Hi Leigh
Yes ... the term 'rumbling on' ... is not used to insinuate anything other than having content which is built around speculation. The CVA is in deed a polite and useful community which I am pleased to be a member of.
I had not realised the term would cause offence - it is perhaps a sign that as I grow older I perhaps loose tolerance. I am becoming a 'grumpy old man' just call me 'Victor' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNrLI3OBwg

Mike'

I don't see how you may have caused offence - I interpreted the term to indicate that the thread was a busy and possibly lengthy one "to-ing and fro-ing" and was surprised that the link was to a short thread, wondered if there was another thread running.

I have no great knowledge of the subject, it seems strange that when going to the trouble of erecting such a statue somebody simply makes up imaginary insignia and portrays other insignia inaccurately and no other interested party gets a grip.
I suppose that's artistic license.

I can out grump most though - ask Nic.
He simply tells me to shut up.

[Mike B]

I have added some thoughts to the CVA thread

http://forum.commandoveterans.org/cd...list/6153.page

By the sounds of it, some one else has also pointed out, the Combined Operations badges are pointing the wrong way, ie backwards (I have not seen them). The subject of the insignia has created a lot more dialogue that has been committed to writing.

Most importantly of all - such discussion should not be allowed to detract from an impressive memorial to a notable veteran.
Mike

[Phill Lockett]

Originally Posted by Mike B

Hi Leigh
Yes ... the term 'rumbling on' ... is not used to insinuate anything other than having content which is built around speculation. The CVA is in deed a polite and useful community which I am pleased to be a member of.
I had not realised the term would cause offence - it is perhaps a sign that as I grow older I perhaps loose tolerance. I am becoming a 'grumpy old man' just call me 'Victor' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNrLI3OBwg

Mike'

Mike, your not a grumpy old man, its the younger collecting "one click" speculation generation that don't do the amount of years of research, interviews and leg work that you and others do for the community.

Not only that but you are a gentlemen and person who is willing to share his knowledge, with a healthy skepticism, I know that to be true because you have helped me understand a fraction of the commando legacy.
And I do believe that.

Phill

[Mike B]

Phill
Many thanks, I much appreciate your kind comments. We all have lots to learn and the value of this forum, and other sources is boundless - I always enjoy our exchange of correspondence, it is healthy to share ideas with one another, raise questions, and where necessary retain an open mind.
Mike

[Mike Jackson]

I add this - prepared for Walcheren Day 1945 - to illustrate the change of nomenclature from SS Bde to Cdo Bde - effective across the whole of the Special Service Group. By the War's end, all four Cdo Bdes wore the same formation sign - the FS Knife - as illustrated here.
4 Cdo Bde_4SS Bde_Walcheren Day 1 Nov 45.jpg

[Mike B]

Mike - yes in deed a valid point. Replacing Combined Ops signs as you say following change of name from Special Service Group etc to Commando Group etc circa Dec 1944 / Jan 1945.
A nice looking little leaflet.
Mike