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  #16  
Old 19-02-21, 03:26 PM
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Wrong post
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  #17  
Old 19-02-21, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
So is this badge genuine? If so, it is a disgrace. Most Indian cast badges are far better than this.
I too am open to anything as one can never say never, but will need more solid evidence to accept this badge as something actually made by Lambourne.

CB
Yes.

I would say itís far better than 99% of the cast Indian badges Iíve ever seen.

Given itís marked and neither said mark nor the badge are known fakes itís surely more logical to say you would want some evidence itís NOT made by Lambourne... ???

Lambourne are infamous for their lack of finesse in badge designs. The quality too is also synonymous with them.
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  #18  
Old 20-02-21, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Yes.

I would say it’s far better than 99% of the cast Indian badges I’ve ever seen.

Given it’s marked and neither said mark nor the badge are known fakes it’s surely more logical to say you would want some evidence it’s NOT made by Lambourne... ???

Lambourne are infamous for their lack of finesse in badge designs. The quality too is also synonymous with them.
With all due respect, I must strongly disagree it is better than most Indian cast badges. I have been collecting Indian Army badges for over thirty years and have among them only half a dozen or so that would rate on a par with this particular badge. I have had some worse than that, but made upgrades going along. Additionally, none have ever had blades, lugs, or sliders, so poorly attached.
I certainly agree that many badges made during the war, including some by Woodward, are not very well made; I am referring to the standard OR issue die struck badges however.
If the blade on that badge did not have that admittedly original appearing mark, I suspect the badge would have been summarily poopooed.
I am not aware that Lambourne made any cast OSD badges. If I am mistaken, please correct me.
A makers mark does not guarantee authenticity, as we are all aware.

CB
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Last edited by cbuehler; 20-02-21 at 02:48 AM.
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  #19  
Old 20-02-21, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
With all due respect, I must strongly disagree it is better than most Indian cast badges. I have been collecting Indian Army badges for over thirty years and have among them only half a dozen or so that would rate on a par with this particular badge. I have had some worse than that, but made upgrades going along. Additionally, none have ever had blades, lugs, or sliders, so poorly attached.
I certainly agree that many badges made during the war, including some by Woodward, are not very well made; I am referring to the standard OR issue die struck badges however.
If the blade on that badge did not have that admittedly original appearing mark, I suspect the badge would have been summarily poopooed.
I am not aware that Lambourne made any cast OSD badges. If I am mistaken, please correct me.
A makers mark does not guarantee authenticity, as we are all aware.

CB
We will have to agree to disagree when it comes to Indian made badges.

Regards the RE badge, just because something may be summarily pooh-poohed that does not make the pooh-poohing justified or the pooh-poohers correct.

I would suggest looking at those threads I linked and the OSD badges within. If you also look at ‘The BIG Fat Lambourne Thread’ where you will see an Other Ranks RE badge noted as made by Lambournes.

Nozzer and TWGB were the main contributors to the list which is based on good badges held in their collections. I would draw your attention to this badge, wonky cypher n’all, and suggest studying it in detail compared to the badge in the OP.

Without a War & Peace post on the badge and its mark’s physical characteristics v’s known fakes and copies inclusive of comparisons on the various manufacturing techniques that can be used for a period piece v’s later reproduction methods the abridged conclusion are either...

1. The fakers have made a new fake mark matching the period Lambourne stamp (found impressed in the reverse of other Lambourne badges) and applied it to tangs rather than the badge itself. They have also faithfully sought out scarce badges from Lambourne dies to produce these copies from and in this case modified the reverse of the die they’ve produced to give it the die cast OSD look. Finally they have skilfully aged every badge I’ve seen showing no detectable traces of the usual chemical agents used.

Or

2. It’s genuine.

The plausibility of scenario 1 when coupled with the extremely low numbers these badges are encountered to me seems far fetched. But ultimately we all have to make our own judgements based on experience and observations.

One thing I’ve learned on the forum is never ignore a pooh-pooh.
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  #20  
Old 20-02-21, 10:04 PM
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There are things in both the op and Lukes that make it clear to me anyway that both although not identical can only have come from the same die or one made from it.
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  #21  
Old 21-02-21, 12:18 AM
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Well indeed it is made "from" the die as it is cast, but I do concede that it is original due to the weight of the consensus. I must say that it has shaken my trust in British quality however
Stephen Fry was not the only one to employ a good Poohpooh, as a certain sage of the English language may have employed it in reference to a word which I have just been just been made cognizant of regarding this particular badge; "Fugly".

CB
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  #22  
Old 21-02-21, 12:22 AM
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No argument - it's definitely a 16 pinter job.
On a Friday afternoon, too.
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  #23  
Old 21-02-21, 02:22 PM
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Hi All,
Well I've certainly stirred up a good debate. On closer examination of the marked tang it is actually fixed in the correct position, the first 5mm of it are squashed flat against the back of the badge and have been soldered down to strengthen the tang, so the end of the tang is actually correctly positioned.
I am more than happy it is genuine, no body would go to such extreme lengths to fake this badge. On looking again today in daylight the badge is reasonably good, the crown is well detailed, its just the GVR cypher which is poor quality and finish, but it is more elaborate than a standard GVR cypher on a RE badge.

John
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  #24  
Old 27-02-21, 04:55 PM
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It might, although, they would have to be original, quite frankly, I very much doubt if the thought actually occurred to rank and file, in particular in wartime, I can only speak for myself, in peacetime and confirm the thought never entered my mind, in fact, I should imagine I would have been more concerned by the badge test itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
And that may indeed explain why they are so scarce compared to Lambourne made OR badges. Clearly the rank and file had no such choice in what they were issued, doubtless they too shared the disappointment of Lambourneís quality but were comparatively powerless to refuse.

I would dearly love to see your RFC please should you still have it. Indeed I even have a orphanage tin for disowned and unwanted Lambourne badges so should you have it and wish to move it on please do let me know.
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  #25  
Old 06-03-21, 03:42 PM
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The cypher is certainly very poor indeed, I have to say it is the worst that I have ever seen on an RE officers SD cap badge, I really cannot understand why you would think it is "more" elaborate than a standard GvR cypher on an RE badge.
When compared with a good early example, it fails to come anywhere remotely near.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hindoostan View Post
Hi All,
Well I've certainly stirred up a good debate. On closer examination of the marked tang it is actually fixed in the correct position, the first 5mm of it are squashed flat against the back of the badge and have been soldered down to strengthen the tang, so the end of the tang is actually correctly positioned.
I am more than happy it is genuine, no body would go to such extreme lengths to fake this badge. On looking again today in daylight the badge is reasonably good, the crown is well detailed, its just the GVR cypher which is poor quality and finish, but it is more elaborate than a standard GVR cypher on a RE badge.

John
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  #26  
Old 08-03-21, 08:53 AM
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Absolutely not the case at all, they are not sliders, they are blades that have been stamped before the badge was subsequently finished off.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
Unless that blade is a slider cannibalized from another Lambourne badge, which I think it may be, it makes no sense whatsoever being there.

CB
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  #27  
Old 08-03-21, 10:08 AM
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To be quite honest, I was circumspect in my original post in this thread, but, I do stand by it, if the op wants a good RE OSD cap badge, simply replace it, on the other hand, he wants an oddity, he need look no further.
I don't like any of these badges and all the rest with named blades, the awful"JG" and so on.
I do agree, you can certainly get far better Indian made badges and of course, on occasion, rather worse examples too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
So is this badge genuine? If so, it is a disgrace. Most Indian cast badges are far better than this.
I too am open to anything as one can never say never, but will need more solid evidence to accept this badge as something actually made by Lambourne.

CB
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