96th (Leeds Rifles) Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Good day to you!

I would very much welcome comments on this badge for the 96th (Leeds Rifles) Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA. Is it an original badge for the ww2 era? Thank you.

Cheers, Tom

[Wmr-RHB]

I can't inform you about the badge, but as far as I know it is 66th (Leeds Rifles, The West Yorkshire Regiment) Anti-Aircraft Regiment (later Heavy) and not the 96th.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB

I can't inform you about the badge, but as far as I know it is 66th (Leeds Rifles, The West Yorkshire Regiment) Anti-Aircraft Regiment (later Heavy) and not the 96th.

Hi Henk,

This is what I found on internet:

The Territorial Army was rapidly expanded following the Munich Crisis, particularly the Anti-Aircraft (AA) branch of the Royal Artillery (RA). 96th Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA was among the new units raised in the Spring of 1939. It was formed in the West Yorkshire towns of Castleford and Halifax in April and was soon joined by an experienced TA battery from Leeds:

Regimental Headquarters (RHQ) at Castleford
186 AA Battery at Oulton – from 66th (Leeds Rifles) (West Yorkshire Regiment) AA Regiment, joined after May 1939
287 AA Battery at Pontefract – originally intended for 92nd Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery, which never formed
294 AA Battery at Castleford
295 AA Battery at Halifax
296 AA Battery at Halifax

[Mike H]

Kipling and King states white metal and silver plate for Officers

[Wmr-RHB]

That is probably all very correct. But the fact that one Battery came from the 66th, does not make the 96th a Leeds rifles unit. Neither by secondary title, nor that that badge was worn.

The badge was worn though by the 66th.

According to Norman E.H. Lichfield The Territorial Artillery 1908-1988:
96th Ant-Aircraft Regiment R.A. (TA)
1929 - Formed at Castleford as a new until with some personnel taken from 66th (Leeds Rifles) A.A. Regt.
etc.

As you already posted above. But this book nowhere mentions (Leeds Rifles) as a title, nor mentions it the badge. And the book has a lot of badge/uniform notes when applicable (and it does for the 66th).

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Kipling and King states white metal and silver plate for Officers

For the 96th or for the 66th, or for both?

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB

For the 96th or for the 66th, or for both?

It just states that badge with QC Henk ref no 2380.
Its followed by the example with the tank 2381 then the plain example 2382.
I think the initial badge could be too early for WWII

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Mike H

I think the initial badge could be too"early for WWII

When you mean with "initial Badge: the KC badge shown above, then this was used by 7th/8th (Leeds Rifles) Battalion, The West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) (TA) 1921-1936.

And by 7th (Leeds Rifles Battalion), The West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) (TA) 1936-1938, when they became 45th (7th Bn West Yorkshire Reiment) Battaion, The Royal Tank Coprs (TA) and switched to the RTC badge.

Also worn by 66TH (Leeds Rifles, The West Yorkshire Regiment) Anti-Aircraft Brigade, Royal Artillery (TA) from 1936, through some name changes (Brigade to Regiment in 1938, Heavy added in 1940) until the end of the war.

I doubt very much that the 96th ever used this badge. And when, then I am sure you can not see the difference between a 66th and a 96th badge.

I must admit that I never saw a Kipling and King, but I assume that the book not only shows and tells about badges, but also informs about the units that wore such a badge.

[Home Guard]

An RA AA badge I'm interested in and just checked my refence book on it and it shows the badge to be white metal.

Terry

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Not saying that this is the final word on it but Peter Doyle and Chris Foster have the badge that started this thread down as being of the 96th. Clearly this badge came from the 7th and 8th Battalions of the Leeds Rifles (it says so on the badge itself). This is also why the badge with its Rifle tradition is blackened. When exactly this badge appeared is not mentioned but 1922 seems probable as the both Battalions merged at that time. In 1936 the Battalion was unmerged again into the 8th becoming a heavy anti-aircraft unit and the 7th went to the Royal Tank Regiment. The 8th, now the 66th (Leeds Rifles, The West Yorkshire Regiment) Anti-Aircraft Brigade/Regiment kept the 1922 badge, the 7th changed to the RTR badge. The question remains whether this badge - retaining its black Rifle finish - was just worn by the 66th (Leeds Rifles) Anti-Aircraft Regiment or did the wearing of the badge also extend to the 96th Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment which incorporated part of the 66th in 1939 and which Doyle and Foster term 96th (Leeds Rifles) Heavy AA Regiment RA. ???

In any case, I would still very much welcome 2nd opinions on whether this badge is original.

Cheers, Tom

[gunner687]

I can find no reference for 96 HAA Regt ever having a title of any description. When formed, it had no connection to the Leeds Rifles other than having 186 Battery from 66 (Leeds Rifles) HAA Rgt transferred to it. At best, this may have allowed that battery to continue wearing its badges but not the whole regiment. Nor does it appear in the February 1942 lists when many units were given titles.
The only connections to the Leeds Rifles is post war when 96 HAA were reduced to a battery in 466 (Leeds Rifles) Light AA Rgt in 1955 & again in 1961 when it converted back to infantry merging with 7th (Leeds Rifles) Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment.
Derek

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Originally Posted by gunner687

I can find no reference for 96 HAA Regt ever having a title of any description. When formed, it had no connection to the Leeds Rifles other than having 186 Battery from 66 (Leeds Rifles) HAA Rgt transferred to it. At best, this may have allowed that battery to continue wearing its badges but not the whole regiment. Nor does it appear in the February 1942 lists when many units were given titles.
The only connections to the Leeds Rifles is post war when 96 HAA were reduced to a battery in 466 (Leeds Rifles) Light AA Rgt in 1955 & again in 1961 when it converted back to infantry merging with 7th (Leeds Rifles) Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment.
Derek

If this is the case - and I have no reason to think that it is anything other than - it seems authors Peter Doyle and Chris Foster made a mistake in their book "British Army Cap Badges of the Second World War" by stating the badge was of the 96th (Leeds Rifles) Heavy AA Regiment.

In any case, I would still very much welcome 2nd opinions on whether this badge is original.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by kaiserwilhelm2

If this is the case - and I have no reason to think that it is anything other than - it seems authors Peter Doyle and Chris Foster made a mistake in their book "British Army Cap Badges of the Second World War" by stating the badge was of the 96th (Leeds Rifles) Heavy AA Regiment.

In any case, I would still very much welcome 2nd opinions on whether this badge is original.

I checked with G.L.D. Alderson CAP_BADGES of the BRITISH ARMY 1939-45.
He says the same: 8Bn became 96th A-A Art.

But this is not what other sources say.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB

I checked with G.L.D. Alderson CAP_BADGES of the BRITISH ARMY 1939-45.
He says the same: 8Bn became 96th A-A Art.

But this is not what other sources say.

Thanks for pointing out that source. I just ordered that book.

[Home Guard]

This is a most interesting thread as I am seeking that badge for my collection.

Kaiser, that is he same reference I have, which is where he white metal badge reference came from.

I am going to continue to follow this one and very much look forward to some definition.

Terry