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  #1  
Old 04-04-21, 02:39 PM
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Default 5th Kings Liverpools Bugle Band Denbigh Camp 1913

Just acquired this post card. The members of the band do not appear to be wearing blackened brass cap badges and may be wearing the all white metal “walking out” cap badges.

The officer is not 5th Kings and looks like he is a Captain in the 8th (Irish ) Battalion.

The Bugle Major ( ? ) is wearing a badge of crossed bugles on his sleeve above his inverted chevrons.

P.
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File Type: jpg 632A0450-4DA5-4FC7-A717-D66F504D2581.jpg (69.8 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg C0A17A9B-8D08-4233-8EA6-FC0203544A5E.jpg (66.6 KB, 19 views)
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Old 04-04-21, 03:27 PM
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I would assume they are wearing the WM version of the badge as well, but impossible to be sure. I can't make out any crossed bugles, just a crown above the chevrons.

CB
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Old 04-04-21, 03:44 PM
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Thanks CB looking again in a close up I think you are right .

P.
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Old 04-04-21, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
I would assume they are wearing the WM version of the badge as well, but impossible to be sure. I can't make out any crossed bugles, just a crown above the chevrons.

CB
I thought the same.

Chris
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  #5  
Old 04-04-21, 06:22 PM
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I would disagree and think they are the Rifles pattern double bugles, intertwined and he is indeed the Bugle Major with his Buglers.

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  #6  
Old 04-04-21, 06:45 PM
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A really lovely image and particularly nice to note the date that it was actually sent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Brydon View Post
Just acquired this post card. The members of the band do not appear to be wearing blackened brass cap badges and may be wearing the all white metal “walking out” cap badges.

The officer is not 5th Kings and looks like he is a Captain in the 8th (Irish ) Battalion.

The Bugle Major ( ? ) is wearing a badge of crossed bugles on his sleeve above his inverted chevrons.

P.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-21, 12:34 AM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
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Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
I would disagree and think they are the Rifles pattern double bugles, intertwined and he is indeed the Bugle Major with his Buglers.

regards
Well, I thought that it might be that as well, but I have new a big HD screen and expanded the image to as big as it could be visualized; but it just does not appear to be bugles at all.

CB
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  #8  
Old 05-04-21, 09:57 AM
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Peter kindly sent me a copy of this lovely postcard. I thought that they were probably all WM “Walking Out” cap badge. I agreed that a WM “Walking Out” WM badge – but now I think they were BM regular badges.



Regulations for the Territorial Force & County Associations – 1910, Section 9. - Uniform, Equipment, Decorations and Medals, &c. 2. Non-Commissioned Officers and Men
Badges - Para 486. "….. In the "walking -out" dress they will be entirely in white metal or bronze.


The 5th Battalion was the longest lived of the King’s Territorials. However, the history of its insignia is arguably the most complicated. From the outset, the battalion appears to have contradicted the regulations adopted by the WLT Association. From 1908, a “black metal Badge [was] worn in the Walking Out Cap”, But at their meeting on 9th June 1914 agreed that the Walking Out insignia will be, as noted above, ‘silver or white metal’.[1]
(Incidentally, the Bn did wear all WM badge Pattern 3510/1921 (authorised 26th April 1921) - presumably worn up to 1926.


Another complication is that the 7th Bn wore an all WM badge too from 1908!



The soldier / bugler immediately above the officer is wearing what I really think is BM ! (there are a few others that have a White horse but the lower part is distinctly darker.
Another interesting badge was worn by the searjent sitting just to the (left as we see it). This was the Gaunt made “Foreign Service” worn by the 1st Bn from the 1894 (date not fully identified) to 1926.


Finally, yes the officer is wearing an OSD boss with the Harp of Erin (see photograph).
I don’t know much about collar badges but they look very clearly like Harp of Erin facing badges.

[1] LRO 356 WES 4/1, 125 Mtg of the Clothing & Supplies sub-comm 9.6.1914

Last edited by KLR; 05-04-21 at 10:03 AM.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-21, 10:01 AM
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Here is a selection of all Blackened 5th Bn badges


Here also the officer's OSD 8th Bn boss


(incidentally, the W Lancs TF Assoc archives provides wonderful details from boots to badges)
J
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File Type: jpg 025.jpg (82.3 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by KLR; 06-04-21 at 07:44 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-04-21, 10:53 AM
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Looking again, is there a family resemblance between the officer and The Bugle Major , if so it might explain the presence of the officer in the photo .

P.
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