British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Everything Else > Civilian Services: Police, Prison Service, Fire Brigade, Merchant Navy, etc.

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15-05-21, 03:02 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Littlehampton West Sussex
Posts: 769
Default Army Fire Service

Hi, Google search only seemed to return confusing answers, so can anyone please tell me what date the Army Fire Service became the Army Department Fire Service, when it ceased being part of the RAOC, and when it became complerely civilianised ? Additionally, did it retain the same cap badge when it changed from the Army Fire Service to the Army Department Fire Service or did the cap badge change too? and was the cap badge a normal size or smaller like a collar badge? I have only ever seen collar sized ones ?
Thanks for replies

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15-05-21, 03:48 PM
engr9266's Avatar
engr9266 engr9266 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: BOGNOR REGIS UK
Posts: 3,406
Default

Tony, I cannot answer your questions but here is my collection of Army fire service badges.
Jerry
Attached Images
File Type: jpg COLL 57-3.jpg (65.0 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg COLL 57-4.jpg (80.8 KB, 47 views)
__________________

JERRY
ROYAL ENGINEERS/BRITISH ARMY CORPS & SERVICES/BRITISH LEGION/ROYAL BRITISH LEGION (see albums)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15-05-21, 06:20 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Littlehampton West Sussex
Posts: 769
Default Army Fire Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by engr9266 View Post
Tony, I cannot answer your questions but here is my collection of Army fire service badges.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry, looking at your badges, it looks like the bade maybe remained the same after the name change? What size are your badges, I have two, a WD Fire Service in red enamel and staybright Army Fire Service but both are the size of a collar badge, even though I bought them, listed as cap badges!

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15-05-21, 06:41 PM
altcar73 altcar73 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Formby, Merseyside
Posts: 1,622
Default

The Army Department was created in 1964. The Air Force Department was formed at the same time.

Essentially it was a scrapping of the old War Dept. and the creation of three separate departments, the third being the Admiralty.

This resulted in name changes for the Fire Service and Constabulary of the first two departments. The Admiralty FS and Constabulary retained their names.

Dave.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15-05-21, 07:23 PM
Phil2M's Avatar
Phil2M Phil2M is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 6,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorbear View Post
Thanks Jerry, looking at your badges, it looks like the bade maybe remained the same after the name change? What size are your badges, I have two, a WD Fire Service in red enamel and staybright Army Fire Service but both are the size of a collar badge, even though I bought them, listed as cap badges!

Tony
Thats the correct size for their cap badges.
__________________
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15-05-21, 09:13 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Littlehampton West Sussex
Posts: 769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil2M View Post
Thats the correct size for their cap badges.
Cheers Phil

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16-05-21, 11:42 AM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Littlehampton West Sussex
Posts: 769
Default Army Fire Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by altcar73 View Post
The Army Department was created in 1964. The Air Force Department was formed at the same time.

Essentially it was a scrapping of the old War Dept. and the creation of three separate departments, the third being the Admiralty.

This resulted in name changes for the Fire Service and Constabulary of the first two departments. The Admiralty FS and Constabulary retained their names.

Dave.
Thanks Dave. Do you know when the fire service became fully civilianised and stopped employing RAOC soldiers?

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16-05-21, 12:01 PM
Hawthorn's Avatar
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Surrey England
Posts: 770
Default

Tony

In the August 2019 issue of The Armourer there is an article titled Monty's Firemen.

It states,

'Army Fire Service Legacy,

On 1st July 1946 the Royal Pioneer Corps Fire Fighting Wing was disbanded and the Army Fire Service, including the fireboat Units, were absorbed into the Royal Army Service Corps. This lasted until 1961, when it was civilianised and became part of The Royal Army Ordnance Corps. Since 2004 the organisation has become part of the Defence Fire and Rescue Service which along with the RAF Rescue and Firefighting Service forms the present day Ministry of Defence Fire Services,'

Simon.
__________________
Second To None
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 16-05-21, 12:11 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Littlehampton West Sussex
Posts: 769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawthorn View Post
Tony

In the August 2019 issue of The Armourer there is an article titled Monty's Firemen.

It states,

'Army Fire Service Legacy,

On 1st July 1946 the Royal Pioneer Corps Fire Fighting Wing was disbanded and the Army Fire Service, including the fireboat Units, were absorbed into the Royal Army Service Corps. This lasted until 1961, when it was civilianised and became part of The Royal Army Ordnance Corps. Since 2004 the organisation has become part of the Defence Fire and Rescue Service which along with the RAF Rescue and Firefighting Service forms the present day Ministry of Defence Fire Services,'

Simon.
Cheers Simon, much appreciated.

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16-05-21, 10:48 PM
Mike_2817's Avatar
Mike_2817 Mike_2817 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,397
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorbear View Post
Thanks Dave. Do you know when the fire service became fully civilianised and stopped employing RAOC soldiers?

Tony
A slightly more correct timeline!

The Army Fire Service (AFS), later called the Army Department Fire Service, was the fire service which performed firefighting duties on British Army bases. Its personnel were largely soldiers until 1959, when the AFS was civilianised.

Until 1965 it was administratively part of the Royal Army Service Corps but under the McLeod Reorganisation of Army Logistics it was transferred to Royal Army Ordnance Corps sponsorship.

The Army Department Fire Service later amalgamated into the Ministry of Defence Fire Service in 1991, as of February 2021, the takeover of DFRS by private contractor Capita continues.
__________________
Sua Tela Tonanti

Wanted Poppy Pins

Last edited by Mike_2817; 16-05-21 at 10:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17-05-21, 11:59 AM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,491
Default War Department, Army and Defence Fire Service Badges

War Department Fire Service CB 3159 NSN 8455-99-973-9500 late 1950s to early 1970s. Silver anodised with slider - examples made by Turner & Simpson or FIRMIN

A new badge was approved by the Army Dress Committee in 1970 for the Army Fire Service worn early 1970s to late 1980s. Silver anodised with two long lugs not maker marked but probably made by William Dowler

Defence Fire Service with maker mark TOYE 0121 236 3614

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WD FIRE SERVICE (1).jpg (67.0 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg WD FIRE SERVICE (2).jpg (54.0 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg ARMY FIRE SERVICE (1).jpg (48.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg ARMY FIRE SERVICE (2).jpg (65.8 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg DEFENCE FIRE SERVICE (1).jpg (82.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg DEFENCE FIRE SERVICE (2).jpg (65.2 KB, 3 views)
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17-05-21, 04:30 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Littlehampton West Sussex
Posts: 769
Default

Excellent, definative, informative answers! Thanks all, that answered everything I needed to know, Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18-05-21, 12:56 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,491
Default

More information on the other thread:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...004#post550004

Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:07 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.