4th Bn Suffolk Regiment.

[thursdaychris]

Hi All,
I have come across two versions of the 4th Bn, Suffolk's with loops, could anyone tell me the story with these badges. The 1st one appears to be the normal badge, only with loops. The 2nd one is described as the WW1 Economy version and is all white metal, it is said to be K&K 1710, and is considerably more expensive. The pictures could be better, I'm afraid, the 2nd one is the WW1 Economy badge.

[Alan O]

There was not a 1916 4th Suffolks economy badge. it was not one of the very few TF badges authorised for production in all brass.

Also the only 1916 all brass 'economy' with loops was the Royal Scots.

[thursdaychris]

Many thanks, Alan, so there wasn't a WW1 economy version of the 4th Suffolks, then, and if there had been, it wouldn't have been in white metal. The seller of this item is being rather naughty asking £135 for an imaginary badge, I'm thinking ! I take it that the standard 4th Suffolks badge is okay with loops, just out of curiosity, does anyone know what K&K 1710 is ?

[Luke H]

Not intending to muddy the water or wishing to be a pedant but for the sake accuracy Julian’s research does show that in 1916 the WO did order 9,000 4th/5th Bn Suffolk Regt badges in all GM.

I believe the full list is in part II of Julian’s excellent MHS article on the subject.

My personal belief is that the 4th/5th Suffolks along with a great many of the all GM TF badges on the list were either 1. Not manufactured or 2. Unissued and disposed of en-masse. In either case I believe they no longer exist.

The single metal badge pictured in post #1 is wrong for several reasons. Firstly 1916 all GM issue badges had sliders bar the Royal Scots (indeed the order I mention above ‘vertical hook’ aka a slider was the specified fixing). Second the badge appears to be a lost wax copy of a Bodill Parker made badge, you can see what appears to be the scar where the slider would have originally been behind the crown.

So after taking you all around the houses I too believe there was not a all GM badge of this type.

[Alan O]

My error on the 1916 suffolks. My memory is playing up.

[matti467]

Also the lugs are in an odd place meaning the badge would have a tendency to tilt forward

[thursdaychris]

Many thanks, chaps, but the first badge shown, is this one correct ? bimetal 4th Bn with loops, if so, is it a cap badge or a collar badge ?

[Luke H]

It’s a cap badge and yes it’s genuine.

If you ask David he would probably be OK with you showing pictures from his site rather than these out of focus and off centre photos of screen images.

[dubaiguy]

If it helps also with a slider - one I sold onwards last week.

[thursdaychris]

Yes, I have the slider version, it was just the loops that I had not seen, up to now, on these badges. Sorry about my dodgy badge photos, sadly, these are about the best, a geriatric, like me, can manage. However, I don't suppose that anyone will mind me using images from their website, as long as I end up buying their stuff.

[KLR]

From 1908 to 1915/6 the TF continued to wear the FSC which was more conducive to badges with loops. (so did regular battions serving in India!)


But the WO order for badges in 1916 were to have 'vertical shanks' or 'vertical hooks' (=sliders) - except the usual, Scottish badges etc.

[thursdaychris]

Many thanks, Julian, so, any Suffolk TF badge with loops is an early version, and all the later badges have sliders. I have a number of collar badges in gilding metal, but only one in white metal, so far, I assume that the white metal ones were TF ?

[KLR]

Like many high jumps with badges. TF badges from 1908 are MOSTLY looped. Conversely there are some Vol Bns which have sliders!


No (thank you Luke), I'm still struggling with Part 2. I'm in the middle of retiring but hopefully when that's over I'll get down to Pt 2

[matti467]

First one looks a really nice badge and identical to mine