Grenadier guards portrait senior warrant officer pre 1936

[Alan O]

I think there may be a mixing of rank (WO1) and appointment (RSM).

It is possible that you man wearing the standard WO1 badge is not an RSM but filling a WO1's appointment. He may never had held an RSM appointment at all.

The large badge is worn by the Guards WO1's filling a RSM's appointment. The other by a WO1 not filling an RSM's appointment. The same would presumably have been the case for Super Clerks prior to 1992 when all clerks transferred to the AGC.

[Carnforth]

Originally Posted by Alan O

I think there may be a mixing of rank (WO1) and appointment (RSM).

It is possible that you man wearing the standard WO1 badge is not an RSM but filling a WO1's appointment. He may never had held an RSM appointment at all.

The large badge is worn by the Guards WO1's filling a RSM's appointment. The other by a WO1 not filling an RSM's appointment. The same would presumably have been the case for Super Clerks prior to 1992 when all clerks transferred to the AGC.

No mixing as I see it.
The caption for that photo is

WO I D.G. MULLINS, Coldstream Guards
RSM, Army Technical Foundation College

His appointment was Regimental Sergeant Major.
Also, Army Apprentice Schools prior to the mid-sixties had permanent staff Regimental Sergeant Majors* provided by the Brigade of Guards. They followed the convention that RSMs who had not been RSMs of Guards Battalions wore the lower arm, smaller coat of arms.



*arguably Regimental Sergeants Major.

[Alan O]

So to clarify all those RSMs filling an appointment as RSM of a Guards Bn and London District wear the big badge.

All other Guards WO1s filing non RSM appointments, or E2 RSM appts outside Bde, get the standard sized badge?

[grumpy]

Yes but .............

worth clarifying that once a Guards WO I gains the big badge as RSM of a battalion, he keeps it unless commisssioned, or retired or becomes GSM London District or AcSM.

[Carnforth]

Originally Posted by grumpy

Yes, bang on the money. My understanding is that all Guards RSMs wear the Big Badge and continue to wear it even after going on to another appointment [unless, of course, to Garrison SM London District or RMA Sandhurst as Academy SM]. The small Royal Arms worn lower right on scarlet Home Service is for all other WO Class I Foot Guards not appointed RSM, and the most frequent use is/ was as Superintending Clerk. The badge is on dark blue/black.

Open to correction in the hope of learning!

I clearly disagree 100% with Carnforth, one or both of us must be wrong!

Perhaps this will clarify things;

Large Royal Arms are worn only by:
RSMs, Superintending Clerk Household Division (when Foot Guards),.

All other WOs1 incl those at ERE who have not been RSM of a
Foot Guard Bn or College RSM at the RMAS will wear small
Royal Arms -on forearms as applicable to dress.

Source;

ARMY DRESS REGULATIONS (ALL RANKS)
Part 9
Badges, Headdress and Embellishments
February 2016
Page 30/117

Link
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...20Part%209.pdf

[grumpy]

Interesting that the fiction of Good Conduct chevrons being worn is maintained even in 2016.

When was the last such seen being worn?

[Frank Kelley]

Jerry, I managed to miss this post, but, what a superb image that is.

Originally Posted by JBBOND

Named photograph of Joseph Nugent Paterson. The dedication on the reverse says he was born in Arbroath in May 1895 and enlisted in Swansea June 12th 1912. He served in WWI with the 1st Bn Grenadier Guards army number 15911 arriving in France 12/11/1914. his MIC also states he was a Lance Sgt and Acting WOII so it seems he was promoted very quickly (unless I have the wrong MIC?, though there is only one Joseph Paterson in the GG during WWI that I can find). He has his WWI trio of medals on his chest and the royal arms badge on his red tunic along with his red sash and his bearskin. A lovely sharp image in the hand. It came framed but the backing card is warped though the picture itself is perfect.