Marks on Lee Metford bayonet

[Peter Brydon]

Picked up a Lee Metford bayonet this morning at a very reasonable price even allowing for the lack of scabbard, it is well marked but I would appreciate it if anyone can confirm what the marks represent, I have my own thoughts but would welcome others input.

Thanks.

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

Picture of the other side of the blade.
P.B.

[Donny B.]

G'day 8thfoot,
Since no one has offered an authoritive response to your post I shall venture my modest opinion, for what it is worth.

Your bayonet is a Pattern 1888. They are not specifically Lee Metford bayonets. They were issued along with a whole range of rifles including the Magazine Lee Metford, the Magazine Lee Enfield, the Charger Loading Lee Enfield, the Martini Metford, the Martini Enfield Artillery carbine, some Martini Enfield rifles (probably special order) and various commercial rifles such as the Lee Speed.

Without looking at the grips it is difficult to tell just what Mark of the 1888 bayonet yours is but from the markings I would suggest that it is a Mk1 (2nd type). This means that the clearing hole goes through the grips just behind the rear rivet. This puts the clearing hole far enough forward to accomodate the extra length of the cleaning rod that extended from the front of the bayonet bar on the earlier rifles. The cleaning rod was dispensed with in about 1899 so Mk2 bayonets had the clearing hole and rear rivet altered accordingly. The Mk1 (2nd type) is the most common of the 1888 bayonets.

The markings on the Ricasso right, I believe are

WD (War Department) ownership mark.

Crown/45/L is an inspector's mark. The 45 is the inspector's number and the L, I believe, indicates that the inspector, though probably British, was stationed at Liege in Belgium. I expect that the same mark, or at least another L mark, is on the back edge of the blade just in front of the muzzle ring. These are the original inspection marks stamped when the bayonet was manufactured.

The X shows that the bayonet passed the bend test.

If I saw that mark that looks like an R against its mirrored image on the knox form of a rifle I would take it to mean that the weapon was unsafe and had been down graded for drill use only.....usually by cadets. I expect that it implies that your bayonet was downgraded for drill purposes as well.

There is a plethora of inspection markings on the left ricasso. They are the crown/B/number marks. These indicate that the bayonet has been inspected numerous times....maybe for refurbishment or reissue, etc, etc. Though I do not see any BR (RSAF repair) marks, all inspections appear to have been carried out at RSAF/Sparkbrook. The "B" is their mark. A B in italics would have indicated BSA. The numbers in those inspection marks indicate the particular inspector at the time. The large numbers that are dotted around, I expect, are the dates when the inspections were made but they appear to be a bit of a hodge podge and are not easy to read. Some seem poorly stamped and a some may be upside down.

I can see the royal cypher.....crown over V R .....but inspector number 77 seems to have blotted out the R.

Running across the ricasso, just under the royal cypher, is what appears to me to be a poorly stamped "1 '92". You can probably read that better than I can but it is where and how the date of manufacture of the bayonet is usually stamped. If I am correct it indicates a manufacture date of January, 1892. I do not see a manufacturer's name, which would also be in this area, but I don't think I would expect to do so if it is a Liege bayonet.

You indicated that you had your own thoughts on the significance of the markings. I should appreciate hearing them.

I Man

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Donny,

You have confirmed a lot of what I thought, for example the bend test mark,date of manufacture, and downgraded mark. The information about Liege is something I did not know.

I have 3 examples of this bayonet and find that the various stamps that can be found on these bayonets and their scabbards ( often in the most unexpected places ) are amazing.

Thanks again. If only badges had similar marks to show their histories!!!!!

Peter

[Donny B.]

I am glad the information was useful and that we were in agreement..

There are a whole lot of those little inspection marks and, as you say, they seem to crop up in all sorts of places. Did you find one on the back edge of the blade in front of the muzzle ring?

Basically most of them are very similar....a small crown, a small letter and a small number. The number identifies the inspector and the letter tells where it was inspected. Until someone tells me different, I believe some of the inspection letters you are likely to come across indicate........
E Enfield Royal Small Arms factory inspection mark
B Birmingham/Sparkbrook R.S.A.F inspection mark
B B.S.A. inspection mark
W Wilkinson inspection mark
BR Birmingham/Sparkbrook repair mark
S Solingen mark, British inspector
L Leige mark, British inspector
F French mark, British inspector

I have trouble trying to decypher the British Regimental markings that often appear on bayonets, and other items. I would have struggled to figure that the 2VLL on that scabbard you posted some time back was 2nd Volunteers, King's Liverpool Regiment.

I Man

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks again,

Some more marks from a bayonet and scabbard I picked up last week Some of the marks ( used on swords and bayonets ) identifying individual units are in "Swords of the British Army " by Robson which is how I identified the frog was to the 2nd V.B. Kings Liverpools.

It is incredible just how many marks there are on some bayonets.

Peter

[yorkie]

See the scans of a Lee Metford I own. Bayonets are not my thing at all. I bought this one without a Scabbard Just for the 4th West Riding Volunteer inscription along with the number 396 presumably the soldiers number. Not too many marks on this one at all.
I had to buy a second Lee Metford Bayonet just for the Scabbard That one has a lot more marks on it and is for sale if anyone is interested in aquireing one without the Scabbard.

[Donny B.]

An interesting bayonet, Yorkie, I think you will find that the 396 is a rack number rather than the soldier's number. Other than that it is also my post box number.

There will be a lovely old Magazine Lee Enfield rifle with the same markings and rack number floating around out there somewhere with the same markings and rack number....if it has managed to so far escape the melting pot.

I Man

[Peter Brydon]

Donny,

Thanks.

An interesting thread, does the fact that bayonets and rifles had rack numbers mean that soldiers in a regiment would not necessarily be issued with the same items each time items were issued to them ?

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

Great find this morning- an1888 Mk1 first type bayonet with 3 brass rivets. It is not in the best condition but still an example of what I understand is a fairly rare item.

P.B.