British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Military Buttons

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29-01-17, 02:49 AM
RobGordon35 RobGordon35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8
Default Army Veterinary button question.....

Hello,
am trying to find information about Edward VII era RAVC dress tunic buttons.

The early non-stabrite buttons; are they one inch across? I have found a decent number that are one inch or smaller but some other uniforms of this era seem to have 25mm or equivalent size.



Thanks in advance for any information.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-01-17, 09:15 PM
davidwyke's Avatar
davidwyke davidwyke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,478
Default

Hi

Welcome to the Forum!

The Edward VII Army Veterinary Department/Service buttons come in three basic sizes - large and small (both for the tunic) and cap size.

The buttons can vary a bit in size but the large ones are about 25mm, which is more or less the same as an inch.

Not sure if that answers your question or not

David
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30-01-17, 05:42 AM
RobGordon35 RobGordon35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwyke View Post
Hi

Welcome to the Forum!

The Edward VII Army Veterinary Department/Service buttons come in three basic sizes - large and small (both for the tunic) and cap size.

The buttons can vary a bit in size but the large ones are about 25mm, which is more or less the same as an inch.

Not sure if that answers your question or not

David
Hi David and thank you for the response and the welcome, -its appreciated!

Yes, sorry for the confusing post, I'll explain a bit better (made a typo with the size)

I do have some original 25mm/1'' original buttons RAVC, from about the turn of the century. I was wondering if this is the correct size for the front of the tunic and the eight buttons that are on the back? From what you're saying the 25mm/1'' are correct for the jacket itself. I wasnt sure as I had researched other Military jackets online from the same era and they seemed to have slightly larger buttons again (difficult to tell from photographs online and in books!)

Also, if I might pick your brains; I have a pair of these 'collar dogs' (I think they are called) badges for either side of the high collar.




Do you know if these were attached with some kind of pin? Or were they sewn directly onto the collar?

Thank you once again for any help you can offer.

Last edited by RobGordon35; 30-01-17 at 05:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30-01-17, 08:04 AM
GTB's Avatar
GTB GTB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Malta
Posts: 2,645
Default

Looks like OSD ollar badge with blades

GTB
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30-01-17, 08:13 AM
RobGordon35 RobGordon35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8
Default

Hi GTB, its actually this one;





Has two little circular eyelets on the back. Was wondering how this is fastened to the collar?

Thanks

Last edited by RobGordon35; 30-01-17 at 08:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30-01-17, 10:37 AM
oc14 oc14 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 3,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobGordon35 View Post
Hi GTB, its actually this one;





Has two little circular eyelets on the back. Was wondering how this is fastened to the collar?

Thanks
Secured by a split pin that passes through both loops or lugs
PL
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30-01-17, 11:10 AM
GTB's Avatar
GTB GTB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Malta
Posts: 2,645
Default

Also known as cotter pin.

GTB
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30-01-17, 01:59 PM
davidwyke's Avatar
davidwyke davidwyke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,478
Default

Hi Rob

I'm still confused! Is your query about an OSD jacket (Officers Service Dress - the khaki uniform)? Your description above sounded more like a pre 1914 full dress tunic. Whichever it is, large and small buttons were worn on both, depending where on the uniform they were used.

The first badge you have shown if it has blades on the back, which it appears to have - is a OSD cap badge. The second badge is a collar badge (secured by a brass pin as mentioned above) but it also appears to be an OSD badge. These AVC badges were worn by officers c. 1906-1918/1919 but neither was worn with the full dress uniform.

As regards buttons, the 1906-1918/1919 period buttons come with both EVIIR & GVR cyphers. Confusingly, they have the title "Army Veterinary Service", rather than the correct Army Veterinary Corps.

David

PS.... I forgot that you mentioned Edward VII specifically. At the risk of making things even more complicated, I should mention that all the above applies to the period of his reign from 1906. Prior to that the buttons has the title "Army Veterinary Department" and the badges had a "AVD" monogram.

Last edited by davidwyke; 30-01-17 at 08:29 PM. Reason: additional info
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30-01-17, 04:50 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobGordon35 View Post
Was wondering how this is fastened to the collar?

Thanks
You make two holes in the collar of the jacket where you want to fasten the badge and where both loops are on the back of the badge, stick the loops through the holes, and slide a split pin through the eyelets of the loops on the reverse of the collar.

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30-01-17, 11:30 PM
RobGordon35 RobGordon35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
You make two holes in the collar of the jacket where you want to fasten the badge and where both loops are on the back of the badge, stick the loops through the holes, and slide a split pin through the eyelets of the loops on the reverse of the collar.

Rgds, Thomas.
Thank you Thomas, thats cleared that question up. Is there somewhere I could perhaps purchase one of these pins? Or is it just a regular split pin from an iron mongers?

thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 31-01-17, 03:43 AM
RobGordon35 RobGordon35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwyke View Post
Hi Rob

I'm still confused! Is your query about an OSD jacket (Officers Service Dress - the khaki uniform)? Your description above sounded more like a pre 1914 full dress tunic. Whichever it is, large and small buttons were worn on both, depending where on the uniform they were used.

The first badge you have shown if it has blades on the back, which it appears to have - is a OSD cap badge. The second badge is a collar badge (secured by a brass pin as mentioned above) but it also appears to be an OSD badge. These AVC badges were worn by officers c. 1906-1918/1919 but neither was worn with the full dress uniform.

As regards buttons, the 1906-1918/1919 period buttons come with both EVIIR & GVR cyphers. Confusingly, they have the title "Army Veterinary Service", rather than the correct Army Veterinary Corps.

David

PS.... I forgot that you mentioned Edward VII specifically. At the risk of making things even more complicated, I should mention that all the above applies to the period of his reign from 1906. Prior to that the buttons has the title "Army Veterinary Department" and the badges had a "AVD" monogram.
Hi David, -not at all this is all very interesting information.

To explain; I'm having a replica jacket made (two different ones in fact) and I was researching the buttons because although I've seen a number of reproductions jackets (a friend works in theatre) and one or two genuine original period jackets, the reproductions often lack the correct period buttons and use a generic brass button instead. Which means they dont have quite the correct appearance. The RAVC or RAVS jacket is one that was briefly worn by a famous rock star during the 1960's







The other jacket is the Artillery Officers jacket, which I believe is early Victorian (?)





Yes it is very confusing, -I noticed that the RAVS buttons are more convex in their manufacture than some of the others. Seems to depend on the maker but also probably the era.

Thank you once again for any suggestions in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-02-17, 06:33 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobGordon35 View Post
Thank you Thomas, thats cleared that question up. Is there somewhere I could perhaps purchase one of these pins? Or is it just a regular split pin from an iron mongers?

thanks.
They are not just regular split pins from iron mongers but specific to badges. Most badge dealers have some, and sometimes lots are being sold on Ebay.

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-02-17, 08:29 AM
Cribyn's Avatar
Cribyn Cribyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Posts: 1,718
Default

Hello Rob

Going purely by the buttons (which do look original to the item) the tunic must date from after 1873 which is when this pattern of Royal Artillery button was introduced.

Regards
Roger
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-02-17, 10:01 PM
RobGordon35 RobGordon35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
They are not just regular split pins from iron mongers but specific to badges. Most badge dealers have some, and sometimes lots are being sold on Ebay.

Rgds, Thomas.
thank you, yes I have managed to find some for sale.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-02-17, 10:03 PM
RobGordon35 RobGordon35 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cribyn View Post
Hello Rob

Going purely by the buttons (which do look original to the item) the tunic must date from after 1873 which is when this pattern of Royal Artillery button was introduced.

Regards
Roger
Thank you for that, I have found theses buttons to have many different finishes to them, -was this dependent on era or commission do you know?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1800s, button, edward vii, veterinary corps

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:44 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.