Durham & Somerset Light Infantry

[DDEV]

How do these look?

I think I read a post that said the ENGLAND slider is a bad sign (maybe a replacement slider at best).

[Luke H]

The DLI with the England slider is a known repro.

The beret sized SLI is fine.

[DDEV]

Thanks for the quick response.

[leigh kitchen]

A bit of a stretch, but, the badges stamped "England". During the 1970's I believe that strict regulations requiring that foreign produce entering America had to be marked with country of origin were rigidly enforced . To the extent that military collectables such as WWII era German 2nd pattern army sun helmets complete with eagle and swastika shields etc were ink stamped made in Germany.
Any chance these England badges would've been produced and stamped with country of origin to comply with those requirements?
I stand to be corrected on any of the above assumption.

[Alan O]

These were true 1970's restrikes and products of Morrison I believe using FN Bham dies. The sliders are distinctive in shape being a brood taper with very flat faces.

[49lassiepen]

Leigh not a very smart response Alan O response correct as was Luke H
David

[leigh kitchen]

Dreadfully sorry you appear to be offended by my lack of smart, I'll make a major effort to be smarter, though I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have contributed anything that contradicts what Luke's said. Or come to it what Alan's said.

[49lassiepen]

Never said you had

[leigh kitchen]

OK, crossed wires.
So there's no way Morrison's repros would bear the England mark as they may be sold to American dealers?

[Sonofacqms]

I may be a million miles out, but I am sure I had a badge with ENGLAND on the slider in the 1960's, as it was to a Regiment I already had I discarded it to someone else not knowing it was a fake, although I thought the quality was poor and may have been a wartime made badge.

Rob

[leigh kitchen]

I picked up at least one of the things years ago before I knew they were duff, a King's Crown KRRC, possibly with unvoided centre.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

I may be a million miles out, but I am sure I had a badge with ENGLAND on the slider in the 1960's, as it was to a Regiment I already had I discarded it to someone else not knowing it was a fake, although I thought the quality was poor and may have been a wartime made badge.

Rob

They were the first restrikes so could quite well be that early. The badges made were often common ones because those were the dies that he had got hold of. I understand that when Gaunt started making fakes they started with the rarer yeomanry ones as that is where the market was.

[mojob123]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

OK, crossed wires.
So there's no way Morrison's repros would bear the England mark as they may be sold to American dealers?

The only 'ENGLAND' marked badge I've ever had which I sold years ago on the basis they were all considered to be fakes. In retrospect, I wish I'd kept it. It was actually a nicely made, heavy weight, badge, showing good age and patina and considerable genuine looking service wear. If for no other reason than that it would be a good example of the mark to have to refer to. I've had good reason to consider subsequently where that wear came from. I think it's generally held that Cameron badges were/are worn by lots of people other than the regiment....and there are many many Camerons in North America! I've never seen another one, so perhaps it came back from the USA?

Anyhoo - it led me to think about a small lot of badges I bought on ebay about a year ago. The seller had several other multiple lots which included 'ENGLAND' 'MADE IN ENGLAND' and 'MADE IN BRITAIN' marked badges. Some looked as though they had been damaged by water or fire which suggested to me they had all possibly come from the same source. Fortunately I kept photos of all the sellers lots. I suggested on another thread I should start a new thread on the Fakes page showing the photos from ebay if allowed. Alan O gave the go ahead so I will do it now as I have an hour or so to kill. I think it may have some pertinence to the Morrison/England/FN debate - personally I believe there may be some crossover with these 'ENGLAND' made badges between legitimate sales (not necessarily to the MoD) and made for collectors copies. It may spark some debate or not. Mike

[DDEV]

Great discussion. I take from it that it is best to avoid badges with ENGLAND on the slider.

[NewCollector]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

I may be a million miles out, but I am sure I had a badge with ENGLAND on the slider in the 1960's, as it was to a Regiment I already had I discarded it to someone else not knowing it was a fake, although I thought the quality was poor and may have been a wartime made badge.

Rob

Rob is right, the 1960's or even before, but no evidence that they are genuine.

I was terminally infected with the badge bug when in 1968 a Bombardier kindly gave me his rotating wheel cap badge at a Woolwich open day. After scrounging my relatives badges I solicited friends at school and someone's grandad gave me a collection of about 30 badges including this Som LI:


IMG_9837.jpg

IMG_9840.jpg


It had typical Som LI bulling with the mural crown detail polished out, and a decent patina. So it had been around for years before 1968. Never seen another one and I spend a lot of time looking for Light Infantry badges.

Despite the effort made to bull the badge it was the old pattern that began to be replaced in 1930 by a smaller pattern that copied the officers silver cap badge. Large pattern was worn at the Depot but I've seen no evidence of it being used post-war - although from 1951 it appears in the first three editions of Edwards.

I still have the badges it came with; none are later than the 1940s. Sadly as a little lad I wasn't interested in such things as provenance. The slider is attached to the scroll which I've seen on some fake die Som LI badges. But a mystery - and I've alway followed Jeff McWilliam's advice of never getting rid of something because you're not sure what it is.

Does anyone know if all the tapered slider ENGLAND badges are from FN dies? Didn't Frederick Narborough eventually become part of AMMO, makers of metal PRI badges?