Can anyone identify these?

[sailorbear]

Hi all, Wondering if anyone can (definatively not guessing!) identify theses two cap badges for me? The RN Transport badge I have no idea about at all, so would be interested in any information.

The other badge is confusing, I have seen it described as a Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service (RMAS) badge? though the ensign on the badge is that of the "Other Government Services" not the RMAS which has two wavey lines underneath (and definately not the Royal Fleet Auxiliary which has a single upright anchor on their ensign and a totally different cap badge) the "Other Government Services" ensigh is flown by companies such as Serco Denholm who hold govenment contracts, though I have never seen this cap badge (or any cap badge for that matter) worn when I worked for Serco Denholm.

I have possessed this badge since the late 70s so know it was used prior to that, I have heard that it was worn on the British Ocean Weather Service ships but they had their own distinctive "defaced" blue ensign so think it unlikely they would wear a totally different ensign on their cap badge?

I have also been told that it was being worn recently by officers on survey vessels working out of Great Yarmouth, but though it may be possible, to my knowledge survey work is carried out by either the Royal Navy, the Natural Environmental Research Council, the British Antarctic Survey, Serco Denholm (who now have all RMAS contracts) government marine laboratories and a few universities and private companies, none of whom I can see wearing this badge??

So can anyone identify either badge? and can anyone tell me what the badge worn by the British Ocean weather Service looked like ? and whether the RMAS ever had its own cap badge??

All replies gratefully recieved

Regards Tony

[RCN]

Cannot help on the first badge Tony but the second one is Royal Naval Transport, was worn in WWI by Officers who managed the RN Transport services at the various ports associated with the war.

Bryan

[peter4447]

Hi Tony
An Admiralty Fleet Order from 1922 stated that Royal Fleet Auxiliaries and Yard Craft not commissioned as ships of war were to wear a blue ensign defaced with a horizontal anchor which was then the Admiralty badge. (As per your photo). In 1974 the RFA ensign was changed to a vertical anchor and the horizontal anchor became the Government Service Ensign.
On the 1st Jan 2000 an instruction was issued that the Government Service Ensign was to be flown by RN ships when undergoing contractors trials.
Further details can be found on the 'Flags of the World' site. (FOTW)
Peter4447

[Alex Rice]

Hi Tony
I know you don't want any guesses, but here goes anyway. I have a Royal Corps of Transport sleeve badge that is similar to the centre of the first badge. It may be a RCOT Fleet cap badge, so it may be worth checking in that direction.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alex

[Antrim82]

The first badge is RMAS and is for a 1st Class Master of Yard Craft not qualifed as an Admiralty Pilot.

Hope this helps

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Antrim82

The first badge is RMAS and is for a 1st Class Master of Yard Craft not qualifed as an Admiralty Pilot.

Hope this helps

Hi, thanks for that, thats very interesting and useful! Can you tell me where you know this from? dont disbelieve you, but it is always useful to me to be able to state the badges provenance (documents, manufacture labels, regulations, photos, personal experience etc!) especially as I have asked this question about this badge on other forums and would like to be able to prove a definative identificaton!

Regards Tony

[Antrim82]

Tony,
The badge is described in the stores catalogue as NSN 8455-99-415-5778 'Description; Badge ,Organisational, Cap, Port Auxiliary Master. Embroidered , blue, gold, red and yellow.' 'Additional information: Not Qualified Navy Department Pilot.'

For comparison the Qualified Navy department Pilot cap badge is NSN 8455-99-415-5777 'Description; Badge , Organisational, Cap. Port Auxilliary Master, Embroidered, Embroidered , Harbour Master Flag, gold ,red, laurel wreath, Crown' 'Additional information: Qualified Navy Department Pilot.'

In this badge the Marine Services Ensign is replaced by the QHM Flag consisting of the Union flag with central device of Gold crown over black letters QHM on a white background.

The RMAS was finally disbanded on 31 March 2008 when the last of its vessels and services were transferred as part of a 15 year £1Bn PFI contract with the company Serco Denholm for the provision of Marine Services to the Royal Navy.

Hope this helps. Sorry for the delay in reply but work and family life don't leave much spare time for the hobby.

[Alex Rice]

Hi All
Excuse my ignorance but what do RMAS and QHM stand for? Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Alex

[Antrim82]

Sorry. Guilty of talking in abbreviations. Old Naval habit!

RMAS Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service
QHM Queen's Harbour Master

If you want to see a good view of the QHM flag or details of the post and duties of a Queens Harbour Master see the website

http://www.qhmportsmouth.com

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Antrim82

Tony,
The badge is described in the stores catalogue as NSN 8455-99-415-5778 'Description; Badge ,Organisational, Cap, Port Auxiliary Master. Embroidered , blue, gold, red and yellow.' 'Additional information: Not Qualified Navy Department Pilot.'

For comparison the Qualified Navy department Pilot cap badge is NSN 8455-99-415-5777 'Description; Badge , Organisational, Cap. Port Auxilliary Master, Embroidered, Embroidered , Harbour Master Flag, gold ,red, laurel wreath, Crown' 'Additional information: Qualified Navy Department Pilot.'

In this badge the Marine Services Ensign is replaced by the QHM Flag consisting of the Union flag with central device of Gold crown over black letters QHM on a white background.

The RMAS was finally disbanded on 31 March 2008 when the last of its vessels and services were transferred as part of a 15 year £1Bn PFI contract with the company Serco Denholm for the provision of Marine Services to the Royal Navy.

Hope this helps. Sorry for the delay in reply but work and family life don't leave much spare time for the hobby.

Hi Tony, Cheers for that, really very useful and interesting and good to have a definative answer at last! after being told it was an RFA, RNXS, RCT Fleet, Survey, and weather ship badge it's great to find out what it really was used for! Many thanks

tony