Unusual Wing...

[Bill A]

This tunic on offer sports an unusual qualification wing for an officer. It appears to be a Rigger wing being worn in the location of the usual jump qualification wing. For my edification please inform me if I am wrong, but I thought that riggers were other ranks?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/251200378078?...84.m1438.l2649

[54Bty]

Is it not possible for an OR to become an Officer in the Canadian Armed Forces?

Marc

[Voltigeur]

Yes Marc an OR can become an officer and here are some info on that subject.
Jo
CFAO 11-9 - Commissioning from the Ranks - should answer some of your questions.
ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
To be eligible for nomination under the CFRP a member shall:
a. be a Canadian citizen;


b. have a minimum of 10 years service in the Canadian Forces (CF)
Regular Force by the closing date for nomination;

c. be of the substantive rank of sergeant (Sgt)/petty officer second
class (P02) or above;

d. have at least the minimum required years of service remaining to
compulsory retirement age (CRA) for the proposed officer military
occupation classification (MOC) by 31 Dec of the year in which
the selection board is convened. This minimum number of years
will be specified in the annual competition message;

e. for the appropriate officer MOC have a minimum medical category
awarded/confirmed within the 12 months prior to the closing date
for nomination;

f. achieve acceptable standing in the General Classification (GC)
test administered by the Base Personnel Selection Officer (BPSO);

g. possess a Grade 12 diploma (Secondary V in Quebec) or an
equivalency certificate based on education equivalency testing;
and

h. if a MARE 44 nominee (?), provide proof of acceptance to a sub-MOC
approved technology programme at an institution identified below;

(1) MARE 44B(MS) -- institution(s) will be specified in the
annual competition message,

(2) MARE 44C(CS) -- Camosun College (Pre MORPS only), and

(3) MARE 44D(NC) -- Fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial
University of Newfoundland.

CFRP. A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO(?) under the
CFRP, whose rank is warrant officer or below, and who has not completed the
Senior Leaders Course (SLC) will be commissioned in the rank of second
lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of lieutenant effective
the date of successful completion of the required basic officer training.
A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose rank
is warrant officer or below and who has attained the SLC qualification will
be commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant with simultaneous
promotion to the rank of lieutenant prior to the commencement of the
required basic officer training. The commissioning date will be set by
NDHQ. Those CFRP candidates who are required to complete their MOC
training prior to attending the basic officer training will be commissioned
effective the date of successful completion of the basic officer training
but will have their seniority adjusted to the basic officer training
graduation date for the other candidates on their CFRP intake.


A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose
substantive or acting (lacks qualification) rank is master warrant officer
or chief warrant officer, will be commissioned in the rank of second
lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of captain. The
commissioning date will be set by NDHQ. Effective date and seniority date
will be the date of commissioning for those CFRP officers commissioned
after 1 Jan 81. Those CFRP candidates who are required to undertake their
MOC training prior to commissioning will be commissioned on successful
completion of the required MOC training with seniority adjusted to that of
the other candidates on their CFRP intake.


1) CFR-Commision From the Ranks, you should be min Sgt but will accept outstanding MCpl's
2) CEOTP- Continuing Education Officer Training Program, you only need to be a Cpl, and have to finish a degree (on your own time) before your IE is finished
3) UTPNCM- University Training Plan NCM, Cpl's and above, apply to go to school and then trade training in summer etc, kinda like ROTP, can go to civi or RMC
4) SCP- Special Commissioning Plan, Cpl's and up, once you have a degree (we see more people coming in with degree's now) then you can go Officer after you do the NCM time.

[Voltigeur]

Hi Bill, I would think that an officer would/could not wear such a qualification badge but would revert to wearing the regular pattern airborne wings with the white maple leaf IF commissioned from the ranks and becoming an officer.

Jo

From Canadian Forces Land Advanced Warfare Centre;
Parachute Rigger is a sub-specialty to Supply Technician and requires specialist training. A Parachute Rigger supports the parachute and airdrop capability of the Canadian Forces through the provision of parachute packing and parachute maintenance

* Pack, repair, maintain and ensure the safety of parachutes
* Specialist in "ALL" types of parachutes used by the Canadian Forces with the exception of ejection seat chutes

Important dates in Support Coy history

* Canadian Parachute Centre (CPC) Support Company traces its routes to 1941 as part of the Canadian Army Parachute Training Centre where parachute trainees were taught to pack their own parachutes
o This system was soon discarded as impractical and unsafe
* 1949 the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (forerunner of supply) took over the responsibility for all Army parachutes and associated airborne stores
* 1950 the 28 Central Ordnance Depot (COD) stood up to handle all parachute supply issues
* 1968 28 COD was renamed 28 Canadian Forces Supply Depot (CFSD) and persons involved in the servicing of parachutes became Safety Systems Techs
* 1970 28 CFSD moved from Shilo to Edmonton
* 1972 name was changed to Canadian Forces Parachute Maintenance Depot (CFPMD) to better reflect the duties of the unit
* 1984 the Parachute Rigger specialty was returned to the Logistics Branch and all Riggers were remustered, on a voluntary basis, to Sup Tech (911.06)
* 1996 The Canadian Airborne Centre moved from Edmonton and was renamed the Canadian Parachute Centre - CFPMD moved with it
* 1998 CFPMD amalgamated with CPC and became Support Company
* 2006 CPC changes name to Canadian Forces Land Advanced Warfare Centre (CFLAWC)

[Bill A]

Yes Marc it is quite possible to be commissioned from the ranks. To be a Canadian Airborne Regiment officer, you had to be qualified for jumping, packing parachutes would be an additional qualification. The main qualification was to be worn above the pocket, which was the parachute qualification. Reading the dress regs it appears tha additional qualifications such as pathfinder, SAR, or rigger were to be worn on the left pocket. The Rigger qualification wing was not authorized until 1996, a full year after the Canadian Airborne Regiment was disbanded.

[Phillip Herring]

Adding to Bill's last post, the tunic pictured is the old CF pattern which was replaced by the land DEU from 1985 onward.
Regarding the rigger badge, it is worn above the left pocket as shown in lieu of the parachutist badge. A rigger is by default, parachutist qualified.

Phil

[Bill A]

Thanks Phil, That information re the rigger qualification was not in the reference.

[54Bty]

Cheers me dears.

Marc

[servicepub]

Originally Posted by Bill A

To be a Canadian Airborne Regiment officer, you had to be qualified for jumping, packing parachutes would be an additional qualification.

Unless an officer was CFR (Commissioned from the Ranks) he could not wear this. Para-riggers earned this as a 'trade' and officers do not take 'trade' courses, in much the same way that an officer would not be a Jump-Master or Load-Master.
Had the badge been earned as an OR then, of course, the holder could continue to wear it.
Little-known is that, during the war, there was discussion about not allowing officers to wear the Parachute badge as it was viewed, initially, as a trade qualification.

C

[evan 71]

i would expect the beret to have a logistics badge on it,after SSF changes in '93 .The riggers i have seen were all logistics branch and posted to CFPMD where all chutes are packed and wear a maroon beret and logistics badge.nuff said

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by evan 71

i would expect the beret to have a logistics badge on it,the one shown is infantry .The riggers i have seen were all logistics branch.

Prior to the disbandment of The Canadian Airborne Regiment, there were riggers on the strength of the regiment. A rigger qualified supply technician could also be posted to The Airborne Regiment in a supply technician's position.
Once qualified as a rigger, a supply technician continues to wear the rigger's badge, regardless of posting. I suspect that a rigger (like a parachutist) must take down the badge if they refuse a posting to a rigger position.

Phil

[evan 71]

There was sup techs/rigger but they didn't pack chutes and wore logistics badges and maroon beret.I dont think the removal of wings was rigidly enforced ,heard the threats never saw it happen.

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by evan 71

There was sup techs/rigger but they didn't pack chutes and wore logistics badges and maroon beret.I dont think the removal of wings was rigidly enforced ,heard the threats never saw it happen.

All personnel posted to the Canadian Airborne Regiment wore the regimental cap badge. Period. Personnel who were not jump qualified and (at one time) had not completed the Airborne Indoctrination Course wore the regimental cap badge on a green beret.
There were riggers at the regiment holding rigger positions. I scrounged a rigger badge - as worn on the jump smock - and a CFPMD patch from one of them, since he no longer needed to wear the patch.

Phil

[Phillip Herring]

Rigger related badges.

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

Hi Bill, I would think that an officer would/could not wear such a qualification badge but would revert to wearing the regular pattern airborne wings with the white maple leaf IF commissioned from the ranks and becoming an officer.

Jo

Why would you think that?

Many officers continue to wear the qualification badges that they earned while NCMs (Non-Commissioned Members).
For example: Search and Rescue Technicians, Loadmasters, Submariners, Riggers etc.

Phil