Canadian Para Beret - 1944

[borat85]

Hi All - I've recently acquired a 1944 dated para Beret.

Maker is Dorothea Hats Ltd - Toronto - 7 3/8 - 1944

slight damage to leather at rear but apart from this - its in great condition

I'm new to the Canadian side of things so could anyone out there let me know their opinion on this beret? what do you guys think?

thanks in advance,

chris

[borat85]

couple more pics - note damage to rear leather

Also for note - Beret has the ghosting of a badge (see pic)

the badge shape looks like the regular british para one.....as apposed to the canadian.....

any ideas???? were british paras issued canadian ones sometimes???

thanks in advance

[Michael Reintjes]

look sreally bad to me....like a complete repro...what is that circle with the C supposed to be?

[borat85]

as far as I was aware by a couple other collecters are that the c and arrow is the canadian acceptance stamp.

[Bill A]

C /|\ is the operative expression. Not circle arrow. I agree with Mike, this beret makes me very uncomfortable.

[Vix Steel]

Acceptance stamp is your #1 clue I would think.

Try googling Canadian Broad Arrow stamp.

[borat85]

thanks for that all - i'll see if i can dig up some more info around the web and a few collectors i know.

aside from the eyebrow raising stamp - is there anything else that makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[Bill A]

Lining appears to be "too new". The whole inside markings are making me scratch my head. If the beret has the wear on the outside from a badge, would there not be wear to the liner, ink stamp and sweat band? I would like to compare the Dorothea marks and the sizing with a known authentic beret.

[edstorey]

I saw this thread when it was first posted and was going to chime in but waited as I have been blasted before for bursting people's bubbles on some of their latest finds.

When I saw this I ran a check with my berets and although I do not own a wartime maroon Canadian one I do own a number of Canadian black and khaki drab examples. The stamp is correct looking for the beret and the era it is representing.

That being said and as already mentioned, the C Broad Arrow stamp worries me and is the first I have ever seen in a full circle. I have a healthy representative collection of original wartime Canadian military garments and this is the only one I have ever seen in over 30 years of collecting that has a broad arrow encased in a full circle.

As well, wartime maroon berets have been reproduced and faked in the UK to fool collectors since the early 1980s. Every scheme in the book has been used in order to fake these highly desirable items including taking current manufactured maroon berets and replacing the liners with original wartime examples. During the 1980s the UK was awash in both issued and unissued original Canadian wartime manufactured khaki drab berets so purchasing a rather unassuming khaki beret and turning it into a desirable wartime marooon beret was not a problem and could turn a nice profit.

Adding minimal wear and the outline of 'previous badging' was also an old fakery trick and from experience wearing current CF berets, it does not take long for the outline of a badge to be permanetly impressed into the material.

The fact that you are new to collecting Canadian wartime uniforms and have scored so early one of the more desirable pieces tells me that you are either very lucky or have perhaps fallen prey to a reproduction. Also the fact that you have come onto a forum in order to recieve validation of your purchase also tells me that you may wish to do some more research and invest in some good resource material before sinking your hard earned cash into other items.

Remember it is your money and there are people out there that will gladly seperate you from your funds and not think twice about it. Even if the vendor did not intend to sell you a fake, once a good reproduction or fake passes through a few unknowing hands the provenance soon becomes lost.

Unfortunately on this item, my reaction is that it is a reproduction.

[Michael Reintjes]

.........http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...888#post125888

[Bill A]

Please compare the liner stamps for the two berets. Granted, they are different years, (if both are original), but there are some significant differences, starting with the Dorothea ink colour, to the font on the numbers and lettering, and the shape of the diamond. The liner material appears to be different between the two.
Thanks for linking this Mike.

[Unknownsoldier]

Definitely one i'd steer clear of

[borat85]

well i guess that sums it up, thanks for the valued input of experience guys.

gutted is probably an understatement but thats the risk of the hobby i suppose

looks likes its going back to where it came from lol

[Unknownsoldier]

Sorry mate, tbh I'd think a ww2 Canadian beret your probably looking at £1000-1500+ as thats the region a decent british one would be going for.... so anything less might ring bells..

Tom

[borat85]

yeah ah well - cant beat a roll of the dice lol I have been very lucky in the past with a 2nd pat fairbairn dagger.......guess the luck ran out on this one lol