Two Strange Photos to Ponder

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Hoot

The gent in the second photo is wearing the WW1 British War Medal and Victory Medal ribbons and what I believe to be the Silver War Badge on his right.

Agreed, I too think that he is wearing his Silver War Badge, but he shouldn't be as it was not issued for wear on uniform.

The photograph looks as if he has perhaps re-enlisted and is wearing everything that he is entitled to wear in a one off studio portrait.

[Alan O]

https://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk...corps1930s.jpg

Not Oundle as the outline is all wrong.

[oc14]

Second photograph, could the letters on the hat and collar be "CL" and perhaps indicate "Canadian Legion", if so he could possibly be in a uniformed attendant role such as undertaken by members of the Corps of Commissionaires. Just a suggestion.....

Paul

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by oc14

Second photograph, could the letters on the hat and collar be "CL" and perhaps indicate "Canadian Legion", if so he could possibly be in a uniformed attendant role such as undertaken by members of the Corps of Commissionaires. Just a suggestion.....

Paul

And a good one.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

I blew the photo up with detail on my computer and it is definitely the Royal Arms. I just cannot make out the badge on the stripes with certainty, but it also looks to be the Royal Arms.

CB

CB, are you 100% certain?. As far as I know there is no known use of this badge in the inter-war period. No disrespect intended.

[CAM]

Re above:

“When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” SH

[Alan O]

Trying to date this one is difficult with the tunic and cap suggesting 1930s but the belt and swagger cane suggesting pre WW1. Whilst the The qualification suggests VB, pre-war TF or cadet. The dark stripes with a badge on them is really odd.

Could this be a theatre costume for a play?

[Luke H]

Could the belt and stick be studio props?

Obviously that still leaves dating anomalies between the cap and qualifications etc. as identified by others.

The badge does look like a coat of arms. Probably the Royal coat of arms but are there any other contenders (Cadets etc.?) who perhaps wore a different coat of arms in what appears to be either GM/WM?

Not suggesting this is the answer but from memory the City of London School OTC wore a BB coat of arms but I’m unsure if period would fit etc. obviously finish does not.

As Alan points out not knowing the date is a significant handicap here.

The last, similar, poser turned out to be a quite obscure RV (Cambridge University Rifle Volunteer Corps). Like in that pic the sitter here wears the uniform well so I’d be surprised if dress-up.

[Alan O]

I agree about the uniform: just look at the precision of those puttees!

He is not any Junior or Senior Division OTC that I recognise as the badge just does not match any of the known patterns.

[cbuehler]

Could it be a newly organized unit of some sort that did not have a cap badge yet, resorting to the Royal Arms as a temporary measure?


CB

[GTB]

The cap is making me ponder as it doesn't seem to be usual British Army type. I am hazarding a guess that CL could refer to "Church Lads".

GTB

[Alan O]

The tunic with its stand collar and lack of epaulettes is not British either. My guess is that it's some sort of civilian uniform post-war. There were a few organisation emplying ex-servicemen as doormen, commissionaires etc.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Postwarden

Can anyone shed any light on these two?

The first could be a cadet but the cap badge looks to be a General Service one with a similar badge on his dark coloured chevrons surmounted by what looks like a Cert A or similar star.

The second one has medal ribbons and service stripes with the letters CL on cap and collar. The white gloves suggest a formal job and he has an unidentified brooch badge on his jacket. My best guess was Canadian Legion.

Comments welcome.

Jon

One thought is that he might perhaps be an early-on sergeant instructor with the 248th Infantry Battalion from the Canadian forces overseas in WW1. The badge referred to as Certificate A was previously the SNCOs 4-point ‘proficiency star’ for all rifle volunteer units, which would chime with what appear to be rifles style rank stripes. The purpose of the badge was to show military competence in a range of subjects, one of which was to be able to teach classes of trainees. The 248th Battalion was one of just two Canadian units to wear a coat of arms style badge, the other being the 200th, which had a lower profile and more contiguous shape, so it can be ruled out. The second photo might then relate to a commissionaire type employment in the early days of the Canadian Legion when it was set up in 1925 as an adjunct of the British Empire Overseas League of ex Servicemen. One of the roles was to help ex Servicemen into employment. We know that there must have been a uniform for some purpose as there was a very distinctively uniform style brass button. I believe that the cloth badge on his stripes is a woven version of the battalion’s cap insignia.

[jeep]

The first photo, possibly 'Army Technical School (Boys)' (ATS). During the war 'apprentices' wore their own corps badges e.g. RAOC, RASC and later REME when that corps was formed in 1942. I don't know exactly when it happened but at the end of the war or shortly after and as the ATS was part of the GSC, that badge was adopted and worn by all 'apprentices'. In 1947 the title changed to 'Army Apprentices School' (AAS) and the AAS cap badge was adopted.
The old SD was still being issued in the early 1960's, but I have never seen any photo with an 'apprentice' wearing putties. the rank chevrons would be correct for ATS, as they changed to black on red for AAS. The apprentice ranks of A/T/CSM and A/T/RSM were three chevrons with the RQMS or GSC badge as shown in the pic. The swagger stick is a studio prop, but apprentices of the time did wear the Slade Wallis white belt. I'm not sure if collars were worn with the GSC badge, but they certainly were with AAS. The star above the chevrons I know not. Just my thoughts that might open up another line for discussion.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by jeep

The first photo, possibly 'Army Technical School (Boys)' (ATS). During the war 'apprentices' wore their own corps badges e.g. RAOC, RASC and later REME when that corps was formed in 1942. I don't know exactly when it happened but at the end of the war or shortly after and as the ATS was part of the GSC, that badge was adopted and worn by all 'apprentices'. In 1947 the title changed to 'Army Apprentices School' (AAS) and the AAS cap badge was adopted.
The old SD was still being issued in the early 1960's, but I have never seen any photo with an 'apprentice' wearing putties. the rank chevrons would be correct for ATS, as they changed to black on red for AAS. The apprentice ranks of A/T/CSM and A/T/RSM were three chevrons with the RQMS or GSC badge as shown in the pic. The swagger stick is a studio prop, but apprentices of the time did wear the Slade Wallis white belt. I'm not sure if collars were worn with the GSC badge, but they certainly were with AAS. The star above the chevrons I know not. Just my thoughts that might open up another line for discussion.

Interesting theory John, but I think you’re a bit off beam in several respects. The black on red chevrons were adopted for all Boy establishments in 1960. Before that ordinary khaki herringbone type were used. The Cert A badge was used by cadet forces, CCF and ACF, but not by the regular army (including Boy soldier training establishments). Finally, if you examine the shape of the cap badge and more importantly it’s size in relation to the dimensions of the cap, it doesn’t look as if it can be the general service cap badge, albeit that it does appear in a basic coat of arms configuration.