SAS title

[pittaway]

as appearing on the-Saleroom, group to R.W. Chapman, RCS.
any comments welcomed? thanks

[Mike B]

Hello Jonathan.
Chapman features in a book called 'I Spy' by Geoffrey Elliott (Book is about the author's father (Major Kavan Elliott) and his SOE Mission into Yugoslavia).
The C&T lot description provides further details.
The party were caught almost immediately after their drop - taken POW.
The book describes Chapman as being from SAS.
The SAS Title could be a POW product - but who would advertise membership of SAS in a POW Camp? All a bit of a mystery.
I have heard of home made white on black titles 'ENGLAND' or possibly 'GT BRITAIN' worn within SOE, and think there is a photo of wear. I just can not recall which book it is in - possibly 'Ill Met by Moonlight'?
It will be interesting to hear other thoughts.
Mike

[grey_green_acorn]

Mike,
This photo is of W Stanley Moss wearing an England title.

Tim

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Mike,
This photo is of W Stanley Moss wearing an England title.

Tim

Thanks Tim - That's the one. I saw one such title once, and think it is similar construction from memory - unofficial possibly, home made likely, may be no connection - but just an observation.
Regards and thanks
Mike

[pittaway]

Outstanding Medals, Insignia and Paperwork Archive of Signalman Robert W Chapman Royal Signals Attached 1st SAS Brigade, Late Kings Own Royal Regiment, Captured After S.O.E Operation Disclaim in Occupied Yugoslavia, Multiple Escape Attempts from Captivity, Finally Escaping in 1945 and Operating with Partisans in Yugoslavia

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...7-ae3e010dcd8d

[Padre]

I wonder if the fact it was in black and white rather than the usual maroon and pale blue, was to match his Signals titles? Perhaps worn directly underneath them?

[pittaway]

I think if it is genuine and not fake, (not sure yet) it would have been a pickup in Egypt, private-purchase, before SAS fell under Airborne. thanks for your interest.

[Padre]

But is there any record of even 1st SAS wearing '1st SAS' titles in Egypt? Being such an 'unofficial' unit, would he have added it in his own colours to signify an affiliation?

[Mike B]

Possibly improvised title - posting being virtually straight out of unit to mission before insignia issued (I believe he had expertise in the type of Radio issued to his SOE mission hence his selection to participate). May be a 'representative' title in lieu of official issue - at a date unknown, pre or after his Mission.
It would be interesting to see service records to verify membership and movement between units.

[HamandJam]

The 1st SAS title was only introduced in 1944 when the SAS returned to the UK and became an SAS brigade and he only was attached to SAS in the L-detachment SAS period in 1941… and he did not serve with the SAS in 44/45…

On his wedding photo he is wearing a Malayan emergency era moth type of wing but on his left breast as an operational wing. The SAS wing in the lot is clearly of later post war era date.


Cheers JB

Originally Posted by Padre

But is there any record of even 1st SAS wearing '1st SAS' titles in Egypt? Being such an 'unofficial' unit, would he have added it in his own colours to signify an affiliation?

[Padre]

The SAS were officially recognised as 'L-Detachment Special Air Service Brigade' from early September 1941, and from mid September 1942 were officially recognised as 'No. 1 Special Air Services Regiment' as 2nd SAS were then starting to be formed. So officially, he had been a prisoner of War for several months before '1st SAS' was even formed.

I doubt the black on white '1st SAS' title is private pick up, Egyptian made or similar as when he served with SAS in Egypt there was no such unit as '1st SAS'. Likewise, it seems that after returning to the UK after being a POW, he returned to the Signals, with the SAS being disbanded a few months later. So technically, there is no evidence he ever served with '1st SAS', only 'L-Detachment, SAS Brigade'.

Maybe the badge in the Lot is a post war item made for him for some unknown reason?

[HamandJam]

I tend to agree with you…. JB.

Originally Posted by Padre

The SAS were officially recognised as 'L-Detachment Special Air Service Brigade' from early September 1941, and from mid September 1942 were officially recognised as 'No. 1 Special Air Services Regiment' as 2nd SAS were then starting to be formed. So officially, he had been a prisoner of War for several months before '1st SAS' was even formed.

I doubt the black on white '1st SAS' title is private pick up, Egyptian made or similar as when he served with SAS in Egypt there was no such unit as '1st SAS'. Likewise, it seems that after returning to the UK after being a POW, he returned to the Signals, with the SAS being disbanded a few months later. So technically, there is no evidence he ever served with '1st SAS', only 'L-Detachment, SAS Brigade'.

Maybe the badge in the Lot is a post war item made for him for some unknown reason?

[pittaway]

agree with the Padre. thanks for the interest.