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  #1  
Old 08-04-16, 07:37 AM
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Default Limited Vocabulary

I really enjoyed the Channel 4 programme on the Royal Navy recruits and the first programme last night on the Female Recruits to the Army was most interesting.

It appears that the days of instructors calling recruits " horrible little man" have well and truly gone and it now appears that every other word they use is 7 letters long and begins with the letter F.

I know it is 2016 and many years since the Sex Pistols and the Bill Grundy interview and one aspect of the training is to toughen up the recruits but I don't think this sort of language would be acceptable anywhere else and the constant repeating of the word makes it loose some of its impact.

Am I just living in the past ? What do others think ?

P.B.
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Old 08-04-16, 07:48 AM
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Its a common use word. At work its every other word out of the management team's mouths. Most of the staff too, F this and Fing that, it rubs off and I have dropped the F bomb infront of my, religious, stepmother a few times without meaning to.

No need for it but its out there so just have to accept it really.
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Old 08-04-16, 08:17 AM
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Interesting thought Peter. I really enjoyed the programme and look forward to the rest of the series.
I think you're right in that the use of that language probably wouldn’t be as acceptable anywhere else. But it’s the army.
My dad was an old Para and I hold dear to my heart some of his fantastic, expletive laden diatribes. And anyone that’s got in a car with me behind the wheel will know I’m my father's daughter. It may not be big or clever but personally I don’t find it offensive and very much enjoy a creative, sweary outburst.
I should think any recruit who isn’t used to being around that sort of language would find it a shock to start with but would get used to it pretty quickly.
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Old 08-04-16, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil2M View Post
Its a common use word. At work its every other word out of the management team's mouths. Most of the staff too, F this and Fing that, it rubs off and I have dropped the F bomb infront of my, religious, stepmother a few times without meaning to.

No need for it but its out there so just have to accept it really.
I disagree profoundly - we do not just have to accept it. The word was invented and in common usage in the British Army I joined in 1960, but I never heard it used by instructors at 17 Trg Regt RA in 1960, nor at RMA Sandhurst 1961-63, nor at Lympstone 1964, nor No 1 PTS Abingdon 1962 and 1965, nor at JTR Troon 1967-69. To seek to justify it by saying that "everyone does it" never played well when auditing falsified travel claims, nor should it in the case of foul-mouthed instructors. Rant over (for now), but I should be interested to know from Forum members with recent service in non- British armed forces whether it is universal. Mike
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Old 09-04-16, 03:01 AM
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Default Limited vocabulary

I agree wholeheartedly with Mike.

The use of swearing indicates that the user does not have the ability to express themselves in English: as Peter says, they have a limited vocabulary.

Sadly however, some people do use it for effect- take Billy Connelly for example, off stage he is well spoken, but put him in front of a live audience and he gets potty mouth.

If you constantly use the F word it it does tend to demean the user in my view.

Having said that, the use of it was so wide spread that Ronnie Barker realised Porridge could not be scripted without using swearing. If his cast swore the show would not be on before the 9pm watershed so he introduced an non-swearing expletive 'Naff'. So if you must swear how about using this word instead.

Stephen.

PS- hopefully I made proved I didn't need to swear to get my point across.
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Old 09-04-16, 04:11 AM
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Funny this topic comes here and now. A buddy and I were just reminiscing this evening about our time IN KAF. We were both civilian employees. The story goes like this;

On a rather warm June night in 2010, a few of us were out sitting around chatting and having a good laugh. Right on cue, we had our typical rocket attack. Complacency at its best, the alarm sounded, none of us moved. Well one of the rockets hit about 20 meters away from us and tore through one of the buildings, the laundry (IIRC).

Anyway, we all kinda looked at each other and one of our crew a big guy of 6'4" 270lbs, screams out "Holy Hanna, that was close". At that point we were unable to head for cover as we couldn't stop laughing.

So there are certainly alternate words to use. I for one can be a very foul mouthed individual. I rarely swear around my wife, or my kids (all adults) but every so often I do. It is usually met with a though thrashing from my wife.
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Old 09-04-16, 10:16 AM
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I have not seen the programme, but, is it one of those productions with actors or is it for real?
When I did my Drill course in the 1970's swearing was actively discouraged by our Instructor's.

Marc
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Old 09-04-16, 11:34 AM
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I have not seen the programme, but, is it one of those productions with actors or is it for real?
When I did my Drill course in the 1970's swearing was actively discouraged by our Instructor's.

Marc
Its real.

The worst offender is a Grenadier Guardsman L/Sgt, the others arent to bad.

regards
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Old 09-04-16, 01:40 PM
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Its real.

The worst offender is a Grenadier Guardsman L/Sgt, the others arent to bad.

regards
Bad PR., for the Army then.

Marc
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Old 09-04-16, 04:46 PM
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It was certainly the case in the late 1980's and early 1990's but, I suspect it is rather more the norm these days, but sadly, rather more to do with who the instructors now instruct, the language is perhaps more understood by todays recruits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Brydon View Post
I really enjoyed the Channel 4 programme on the Royal Navy recruits and the first programme last night on the Female Recruits to the Army was most interesting.

It appears that the days of instructors calling recruits " horrible little man" have well and truly gone and it now appears that every other word they use is 7 letters long and begins with the letter F.

I know it is 2016 and many years since the Sex Pistols and the Bill Grundy interview and one aspect of the training is to toughen up the recruits but I don't think this sort of language would be acceptable anywhere else and the constant repeating of the word makes it loose some of its impact.

Am I just living in the past ? What do others think ?

P.B.
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Old 09-04-16, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil2M View Post
Its a common use word. At work its every other word out of the management team's mouths. Most of the staff too, F this and Fing that, it rubs off and I have dropped the F bomb infront of my, religious, stepmother a few times without meaning to.

No need for it but its out there so just have to accept it really.
Sorry Phil
But for the first time on this forum, I must disagree with you. We do not have to accept it, I can swear and curse with the best of them, but I found the overuse of the f word in this programme quite depressing.

In fact, after the programme, I texted a good friend of mine who is still serving and asked if this was normal practise these days. His reply was that 'certain instructors' are more abusive to the woman recruits than they ever would be to male recruits!
Whatever your views on women in the military, I found that comment quite disturbing.
T
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Old 09-04-16, 05:42 PM
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Sorry Phil
But for the first time on this forum, I must disagree with you. We do not have to accept it, I can swear and curse with the best of them, but I found the overuse of the f word in this programme quite depressing.

In fact, after the programme, I texted a good friend of mine who is still serving and asked if this was normal practise these days. His reply was that 'certain instructors' are more abusive to the woman recruits than they ever would be to male recruits!
Whatever your views on women in the military, I found that comment quite disturbing.
T
I wonder what the motive for that is? The optimistic side of me hopes it's a misguided attempt at toughening up as opposed to misogyny.
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Old 09-04-16, 06:46 PM
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I think perhaps my statement was poorly phrased. I am not sure how to say what i actually meant. We can't stop it, so we have to put up with it, is that any better?? If I was to tell my managers to stop swearing, they would tell me to F off, so its unavoidable to me.
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Old 09-04-16, 07:08 PM
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Phil,
Make sure there are witnesses there. You might well get a nice claim for constructive dismissal, but not in the services.
Eddie
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  #15  
Old 09-04-16, 08:21 PM
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It would be hypocritical of me to say I dislike the use of the "F-bomb" as I still use it on occasion. This is probably because it has lost the shock value for me after 27 years in the Army. That is the thing about scatological language, (how's that for a 50 P word?) its shock value. Nowadays it shocks me more over WHO says it as opposed to WHAT is said.

The Canadian Army is, I'm sure, much like the British Army (we take most of our traditions from you guys). We try to avoid swearing when instructing troops as our Instructional Technique lessons tells us it presents an unprofessional manner. That does not mean all Canadian soldiers are pure and virginal linguistically. Quite the contrary

To a degree, it depends on how a soldier was brought up. Some heard it growing up (like me, heard from my friends at about age 6 or 7). Some are exposed for the first time in recruit training. Some use it so much they can't string three or four sentences without using it as a crutch or the thread to bind their thoughts together. Some try to limit it's use in everyday conversation.

I know that it is hard to change people's behaviour, especially in today's world of personal liberties, "nobody's goin' to effing well tell me what to do!!"
So, in a group setting, it can be hard to be the only one choosing not to swear. Phil, if your very senior management do not ever, ever swear (wouldn't say S**T if they had a mouthful), maybe you could invite them in for a surprise visit unbeknownst to the others on the off chance the offenders will get caught. As we all know, poop rolls downhill. Barring that, all I can offer is something to say the next time foul language starts flying around..."We can acknowledge that poop exists in the world, we just don't have to wallow in it like pigs."

My perspective from this side of the pond, anyway. Keep smiling.

Ian
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