Shill bidding

[Tonyn]

I know someone who bids in small increments until he's in front, if he's outbid he'll do the same again and several hours before the auction ends he'll increase his bid whether he's already the highest bidder or not.

I just put my max. bid in at the end of an auction and I either win or I don't.

Tony

[Tim B.]

I'm new here and will need to come up to speed on figuring post formatting, attachment sizes, etc. I will also be experimenting a bit to see what works and what doesn't, so please be patient.

This is an ongoing problem with Ebay and despite their reassurances that they take these issues seriously, they honestly don't do much to the sellers that employ such tactics, despite what they tell you. The seller's are their bread and butter in revenue though you would think, as a business, they would also understand that without buyers, there wouldn't be a business to manage.

Anyway, how do you tell when you have a shill bidder bidding on an item, bidding under a different account, or working with the seller?

I'll post some examples and show some ways to figure it out if you haven't already. There will be a few posts to follow, again please be patient.


First, I'm sure we've all seen this type of bidding behavior before:

[Tim B.]

Here he is again, this time the bidder incremented his bid until he took the lead, then retracted his last bid, leaving the guy who bid the most, in the lead.

Effectively, he is inflating the price to the highest point someone is willing to pay and then backing down. He will often do this several times, thus inflating the costs and profits for the seller.

Of course, he is also artificially inflating the price of this and like items, which in turn artificially inflates the market prices others will use as a selling price point.

[Alan O]

Unfortunately this is quite widespread.

There are a number of UK 'ebayers' who inflate ebay prices to levels that justify their own badge website prices. It is win-win. They bid up ebay prices and if they win they get a badge ; if they lose the price is raised enough to justify their own inflated prices.

their is one well known UK dealer who regular bids for example £19.97 rather than £20. He does not want to win at any price but is happy to drive up prices to justify his own website prices.

[Tim B.]

As a bidder, I did not appreciate EBay's decision to remove bidder user ID's as it made it hard to see what was going on "behind the curtain" with some of these guys but you can, with a little effort, still find out who they are by searching through feedback.

Also, using my previous guy as an example, figure out if he is someone just jacking up prices in the market to thus enhance his own asking prices under his own seller account, or in this case, has a history with this specific seller.

The way to check is, simply look at the bidding history of your suspect bidder.

Click on his abbreviated user id and it will show his bidding history for the last 30 days. It also shows a percentage of his bidding history with this seller and the number of bid retractions he has. Of course, this is only a 30 day summary and these number will change but, as they say, a tiger can't change it's stripes.

[Tim B.]

Hello Alan,

Yes, as I also stated in the last post, it is quite common to see people do this to inflate prices for their own self gain.

Unfortunately, it is often collectors and members of the various forums we like to contribute to, to include moderators and admin types. You're correct, the issue will not be going away anytime soon.

[Tim B.]

As Alan mentioned, it's not uncommon for guys to boost the price up in order to justify the prices they want to sell their items for, whether it's a dedicated dealer's site or just their Ebay side business.

I've continually bid against dedicated dealers in the hobby and often see items lost show up on their dealer sites for 4-10 times the amount they got it for on Ebay, often with a hyped up description or claim of "recent estate find".

This is true of forum sales sections as well, where many feel they have a captive audience to sell to and under the guise of being a well established forum member, they often command high prices as many view them as a "trusted source". Many are anything but however.

Another case similar to the guy above and case in point on buyer beware of even those on forums. This guys employs the same incremental bidding and bid retractions as the first example, so I won't bore the reader with similar attachments but then, under his selling account (he has multiple Ebay accounts) he cancels sales that don't reach his price point.

Add to that, he sells regularly on the USMF Forum and while talking down prices on items being asked about in various forum threads, continually tries to justify his prices in his own sales threads, often with statements like "tough crowd" "can't believe this isn't selling", "price is great", etc.

We have to remember, as collectors, that if there is money to be made, then someone is going to try and make a buck (pound ~ sorry ). Whether a collector is trying to fund his/her collection or just trying to make income, they really don't care how they do it.

Last note, then I'll stop with my lecture/rant/bitch...fill in the appropriate adjective.

Collecting for over 50 years now, I can say that you need to do your homework, trust some but not all people you come across and understand many have a motive or agenda for being in the "hobby" besides just collecting. Titles or association memberships do NOT guarantee that a person is honest or trustworthy either, believe me or it will cost you down the road.

Happy to be a new member here and hope to learn some things regarding British badges in general.

Good hunting!

Tim

[Coast Watcher]

I use private listings all the time for auctions and BINs. For a few reasons. Firstly a lot of resellers buy from me. They know their purchase is not public and their repeat business is appreciated.
A fair number of this forum's members have also paid good money for items from me. Thats their business and nobody elses.
Who wants others to know what they have at home and how much they paid for it? I certainly dont.

So while the potential for dishonest sellers to artificially increase the price is possible there are also other valid reasons why some sellers use private listings.