KOSB queries

[Sonofacqms]

I have three KOSB badge, the first two in the photo are very different with the left hand one having more voids than the right hand badge.

The badge in the other photo has been made from a helmet plate centre by adding a King's crown to it.

Any thoughts and ideas about them welcome.

Rob

[manchesters]

Rob,

HPC were the same as the glengarry badge in appearance and had a crown also.

thats probably a repair.

regards

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Rob
As far as I can make out the differences are merely due to the manufacturers and do not indicate a particular date/period. I have seen badges with the semi-circular bottom scroll with QVC, KC, and QC and ditto with the three-part bottom scroll. Perhaps some KOSB expert on the forum can explain. Regards Jeff

[Sonofacqms]

Simon, Jeff, thanks for the replies, I have been going through my line infantry and found these along with three QVC HPC's two of which I must say I was not aware of. As you say maybe a KOSB specialist can accurately date them.

Best wishes Rob

[Sonofacqms]

Having consulted K&K, see there was a KC HPC listed, I think the RH pic with the added KC may well have been a Regimental conversion executed around 1902.

I would be interested as to any KOSB specialists thoughts.

Rob

[fougasse1940]

Your left hand badge with the rounded dominus scroll and seven oillets on the castle (versus three on the other ranks pattern) is an officers pattern badge and should be silver plated or cast silver with the regimental title and top motto fretted. These were never issued in this form but might have been worn as there was a preference for older badges. I consider them fakes for the collectors market.
Middle one is a bog standard other ranks badge and right badge with replaced crown is I suppose a VC badge given an update with a KC? Or if the badge is flimsy it might be a fake with the crest broken off and repaired? The lions tail on the crest should be voided.

Rgds, Thomas

[silverwash]

" Your left hand badge with the rounded dominus scroll and seven oillets on the castle (versus three on the other ranks pattern) is an officers pattern badge and should be silver plated or cast silver with the regimental title and top motto fretted."

as the man said,

[Sonofacqms]

The left hand badge has long been one I have never been happy with as an original, it came along with a collection several years back and was added to my KOSB badges.

I have had advice from an independent source since posting, but many thanks chaps for your input.

Rob

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Thomas and "Silverwash"
I must confess, I am a little puzzled by your respective replies to Rob :
Are you saying that all KOSB badges with a rounded "dominus" scroll and seven oillets on the castle should be silver plated or cast silver with the regimental title and top scroll fretted … otherwise they are fakes !?


As I mentioned to Rob on my earlier post, I had at one time in my collection, a QVC, KC, and QC versions of this striking, all in wm and un-voided and have also seen a QC aa badge with this feature. I include the pics of the first three but sorry to say I do not have the aa version. I sold my collection in the mid 1970s via W&W and none were returned to me as fakes, so I am rather puzzled at your conclusions. However, I am not a KOSB or Scottish badge expert, so will accept your verdict on these (sorry no reverse pics).

Incidently Rob, may I ask what your independent source told you re this design. Many thanks for your opinions. Regards Jeff.

KOSB semi circle scroll QVC.jpg KOSB KC (Edwardian).jpg KOSB QC unv.jpg

[fougasse1940]

Yes, that is what I believe to be the case.
I believe your QVC badge was made after the Second World War. See Bloomer 'Scottish Regimental Badges' p. 14 #88.
As for voidings, initially there were variations in which motto or regimental title to be voided which was settled sometime in the Victorian/Edwardian era?
There used to be a tradition in the KOSB to wear an older than issued badge, so it is likely some of these were actually worn, but not issued.

Have a look here: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=29494

I too am most interested in the independent source advice.

Rgds, Thomas

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Thomas
Yes, thanks for the prompt reply. It is the third badge which is post 1952 as per Bloomer. Incidently, he says it is ORs which was my opinion. The first of the trio is definitely QVC, (well, in my opinion) and is different in many respects, one of which is the no voiding above the "dominus" scroll. It is also larger and more "chunky" than the others as one might expect. Regards Jeff

[fougasse1940]

You are correct with the voiding in the first badge differing from #88. It does lack fretting and I very much doubt it is silver or plated. However, your third badge isn't even in Bloomer.

Attached are the QC officers and other ranks badges. Note that the OR's comes in seeded and unseeded A/A and W/M. The W/M might also be just PRI or for the collectors market.

I remain fairly convinced the rounded Dominus scroll/7 oillets are officers pattern badges and concave Dominus scroll/3 oillets ones OR's.

Rgds, Thomas

[Alex Rice]

Took me ages, but here is a thread which mentions this style of KOSB badge:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...highlight=KOSB

[Sonofacqms]

Thanks Alex, this is a thread I missed, I am often away from my computer and do not have access on my phone.
A most interesting discussion and one people should read before dismissing badges that do not fit into regular categories.

Rob

[Jeff Mc William]

[QUOTE=fougasse1940;466080]You are correct with the voiding in the first badge differing from #88. It does lack fretting and I very much doubt it is silver or plated. However, your third badge isn't even in Bloomer.

Hi Thomas
Must be my eyes (well I am 82) but the third badge looks exactly like #88 to me !? But in any case, Bloomer's #88 has a semi-circular "dominus" scroll, is un-voided and is listed as ORs post 1952. So you seem to be at odds with Bloomer. Regards Jeff.

PS:Alex. Yes, on this thread my query was in regard to the all brass version. Another contentious issue !