British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Other Commonwealth Military Insignia > New Zealand Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 03-12-19, 08:20 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 104
Default

The Volunteer period ranks are a trap for many.
The photo in question shows the sitter with 2 rank stars on his shoulder boards. 2 stars in the volunteer period was a captain. This corresponded with two wide stripes on the cuff etc.
So the question is why has he got captains rank on the shoulders but Lieutenants rank on the cuff?
Most plausible answer - he has just been promoted and as yet does not have his new uniform. Which, if it is Duthie, would put the photo in the 1896 period.
Barry
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-12-19, 08:21 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,269
Default

The following photo is un-named and is captioned "Wellington Volunteers, circa 1890s."

There is a close resemblance to Corporal Halpin and the gentleman in the WCR uniform.

Wellington Volunteers, circa 1890s.jpg

Wellington Volunteers, circa 1890s c.JPG
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-12-19, 08:29 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbroadarrowz View Post
The Volunteer period ranks are a trap for many.
The photo in question shows the sitter with 2 rank stars on his shoulder boards. 2 stars in the volunteer period was a captain. This corresponded with two wide stripes on the cuff etc.
So the question is why has he got captains rank on the shoulders but Lieutenants rank on the cuff?
Most plausible answer - he has just been promoted and as yet does not have his new uniform. Which, if it is Duthie, would put the photo in the 1896 period.
Barry
The cuff rank is most important to narrow down the time frame that the photo was taken and the person it could be, as does the shoulder boards.
I too would speculate the picture was taken in 1896.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-12-19, 08:54 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,269
Default

Lieutenant-Colonel W. G. Duthie was appointed Commanding Officer of the Wellington City Rifles in 1907, replacing Colonel Collins when he was appointed to the Defence Council.

This is probably one of the last photos taken of the Wellington City Rifles before it became the 5th (Wellington) Regiment.

Winners CAC Cups and 4th Team Championship N.Z. Meeting, March 1911.jpg

Winners CAC Cups and 4th Team Championship N.Z. Meeting, March, 1911.jpg

Last edited by atillathenunns; 03-12-19 at 09:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-12-19, 09:12 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,269
Default

As a bit of a Wellington City Rifles/5th Regiment nut, this is one of my favorite officers.
The photo is dated 1911.
Anyone guess who it is?

Guess Who.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-12-19, 05:15 PM
pukman's Avatar
pukman pukman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southland,New Zealand
Posts: 709
Default

The Onward series of books is a good reference to at badges were worn in the territorial period, and WW1.


Here is a pre WW1 , territorial Wellington officer wearing scrolled cap and collars. What is on the scroll of the cap badge is the question. He was killed in 1916.


If it is ''New Zealand'' on scroll, then this is contrary to previous information , that badge wasn't worn till 1922/1923 .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5th Welly Scrolls (2).jpg (76.3 KB, 14 views)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-12-19, 06:06 PM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 2,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
As a bit of a Wellington City Rifles/5th Regiment nut, this is one of my favorite officers.
The photo is dated 1911.
Anyone guess who it is?

Attachment 215171
Hi Brent,
Is it Sir James Allen, Minister of Defence?
Cheers, John
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-12-19, 06:22 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pukman View Post
The Onward series of books is a good reference to at badges were worn in the territorial period, and WW1.


Here is a pre WW1 , territorial Wellington officer wearing scrolled cap and collars. What is on the scroll of the cap badge is the question. He was killed in 1916.


If it is ''New Zealand'' on scroll, then this is contrary to previous information , that badge wasn't worn till 1922/1923 .
Nice picture, I will add it to my collection and look at his history, interestingly, his service jacket has the open collar with tie and plain epaulets.

This photo of Captain Rogers William Wilkinson, has a closed collar with twisted shoulder cords.

Captain Wilkinson 5th (Wellington) Regiment, was officer in charge of the Machine Gun Section in the Samoan Expeditionary Force, after transferring to the Otago Infantry Battalion he was fatally wounded at Gallipoli on the 25th August 1915.

Rogers William Wilkinson page 49.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-12-19, 07:14 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinto View Post
Hi Brent,
Is it Sir James Allen, Minister of Defence?
Cheers, John
Hi John, it does indeed look like Sir James Allen.

The man in question however is Colonel Robert Collins, his military history dates back to 1863 when he joined the Taranaki Volunteers, when I get time I will type up his service history.

The picture of Colonel Collins that I posted, is part of the introduction to the Collins range at Trentham, where I have been a regular shooter for well over 25 years.

Brent

Robert Collins 1.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-12-19, 07:34 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,269
Default

If only we could read the scroll

Leonard Maughan Liardet.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-12-19, 09:07 AM
pukman's Avatar
pukman pukman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southland,New Zealand
Posts: 709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
If only we could read the scroll

Attachment 215392




I will contact Phil from Onward Project , and see if he has a high definition photo.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-12-19, 04:57 PM
pukman's Avatar
pukman pukman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southland,New Zealand
Posts: 709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
If only we could read the scroll

Attachment 215392

Slightly better, but inconclusive to the writing on the scroll. I will keep looking!!.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg LiardetLM.jpg (42.7 KB, 16 views)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-12-19, 07:02 PM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 2,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pukman View Post
Slightly better, but inconclusive to the writing on the scroll. I will keep looking!!.
Hi Iain,
I may be barking up the wrong tree but there looks to be a faint "NEW" on the scroll.
Cheers, John
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-12-19, 06:58 PM
pukman's Avatar
pukman pukman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Southland,New Zealand
Posts: 709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinto View Post
Hi Iain,
I may be barking up the wrong tree but there looks to be a faint "NEW" on the scroll.
Cheers, John

Quite possibly John.


There only a very few photos of the scrolled 5th Wellington cap badge, worn pre war territorial and in WW1(when they were a territorial unit).


From the collection, a 5th Wellington territorials marked bayonet .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bayo 20190823_190914 (4).jpg (36.0 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by pukman; 12-12-19 at 07:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 14-12-19, 07:45 PM
NZEF NZEF is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 42
Default

In the well known 'Record of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force in the Great War Poster' 5th Wellington badge only appears under the Samoan Expeditionary Force section.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Great War Record.jpg (95.5 KB, 9 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.