Unknown Waist Belt Clasp QVC X

[mooke07]

Hi all,

House renovations prevent me from getting to my pc but I have a very simple left hand part of a brass Victorian issue waist belt clasp that has a QVC crown above a large Roman X. The shoulder of the clasp which has a standard scalloped pattern seen on most line infantry QVC WBC's bears the makers number 83.

The missing second piece of the clasp would have had the circlet device bearing the unit name or motto I would imagine.

I acquired it thinking it was to the 10th Foot, North Lincolns and would add to my Lincolnshire collection, however, I am aware of an Indian regiment that used the X device plus a number of Rifle and Volunteer units.

I don't have a reference book for WBC's alas.

10th Foot devices usually would bear the Sphinx and Egypt but am aware of X as a device on cord boss badge to Lincolns.

Any help appreciated and again apologies for no picture for a bit but the pattern is very simple.

cheers Dean.

[Sonofacqms]

Dean, I have had a quick look at Lelia Ryan's book on waist belt clasps and an "X" does not seem to appear on any Lincolnshire buckles as I can see. Probably a Colonial device as you said.

Rob

[mooke07]

Thanks Rob,

Appreciate you checking the reference for me, I am not familiar with that book so will Google and check it out.

I probably should have left half a WBC go but am a sucker if I think it to a family regiment.

I will see in Cox what badges bear the X device as well, cheers Dean.

[Peter Brydon]

Dean,

The book Rob refers to is another Military Historical Society Special number, still available from the MHS for a few pounds.

Peter

[mooke07]

Many thanks for the details and source of the book Peter. I shall look to get a copy as it looks super.

Cheers Dean.

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Dean
I shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to dismiss your WBC as "Indian" or "Rifle Vols" (it may be), but could also be an early pattern line infantry.
Lelia Ryan's book (excellent tho' it is) only deals with officer's WBCs from 1855. So my advice is keep "delving". Regards Jeff
PS. Any chance of a picture ?

[mooke07]

Thanks Jeff,

I still secretly hope it is an OR's early Lincolnshire one.

Builder and painter downstairs so computer packed away.

Will see what I can do off work scanner.

Thanks again for the encouragement - I would love to get hold of your excellent glengarry badge book but the publisher makes it hard from here with shipping estimates etc and not an easy purchase like Amazon, will find a way, cheers Dean.

[Jeff Mc William]

Dean.
Many thanks for your interest in my latest book, tho' I am sorry you are having trouble getting a copy. From the sound of things, I guess DP&G could do with some lessons in marketing skills ! But thank you again for your contribution of your excellent picture.
Re the WBC ;
ORs did not wear WBC's prior to 1855...with the exception (for some unknown reason) of the Indian Army, so if you are correct in assuming it is an ORs device, it could be Indian or Rifle Vols after all ! Sorry. Anyway I await the photo, when you can send it, with great interest. Regards Jeff

[mooke07]

Hi all,

At long last I have been able to get to my badges and here are the pics of the WBC clasp with the QVC crown and X device. Size of the WBC in gilding metal is 6.3 x 4.5cm and marked with 83 by maker. As discussed could be 10th (North Lincoln) Foot or a Volunteer Rifle Corp or Indian badge.

Any help much appreciated, am travelling for work in the US for 2 weeks so apologies if slow to respond.

Regards Dean.

[grenadierguardsman]

I would`nt have said thats other ranks, more like officers or senior nco.

[mooke07]

Thanks and have purchased a copy of the MHS bulletin on WBC which is in the psot to me as not my area and so happy to be corrected to Officer's or senior NCO's. I had thought these perhaps silver and gilt or WM like volunteer battalion badges.

Appreciate quick response, cheers Dean.

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Dean
Thanks for the PM. I am happy to include my comments (for what they are worth) re this interesting item, tho' I have to emphasise that they are only my opinions. (I assume that by now you have acquired a copy of Lelia B.Ryan's excellent booklet published by the MHS as Peter advised).
So, anyway here goes ;

(1) The item you have posted is certainly of the period 1855-1902 and is definately officers or Sen NCOs as gg has already confirmed. Any further comments are mainly speculation on my part.

(2) Ms Ryan correctly qoutes the 1855 (& also incidently the 1857 & 1861) "Dress Regs" re the design of the Officer's WBCs, but, as a glance through the items which follow show, these were open to interpretation and in any case not always strictly adhered to.
This may be partly explained (as Lelia Ryan states) by the alterations in design outlined in the 1864 Dress Regs...but, as will be seen by closer examination, not all : eg, the variations shown for the 21st, 23rd, 38th,75th, 77th, (and probably a few others also), are not included in the 1864 Regs.

(3) Therefore, it is in my opinion, not unlikely that the 10th Foot (North Lincoln Regt) could have had an early variation of the standard design incorporating their beloved (and much used) Roman numeral "X" under the QVC. The only thing that worries me slightly re this conclusion is that your pics show the QVC and numeral apparently in gilt !?

(4) From your pics, I dont think this is an Indian Regt, tho' it could be "Colonial" or even Militia...but I don't think Rifle Vols.

(5) So, my strong feeling on this is that it is indeed 10th Foot early (and rare) pattern Offs WBC. A great pity the circular half is missing, as of course this would confim its identification.

Regards Jeff

[mooke07]

Many thanks for comments Jeff I really appreciate the thought and research you have put into it.

I purchased the MHS bulletin and it was posted to home and has arrived but alas I am in the US on work and so is awaiting my return in a couple of weeks.

The clasp was found by a metal detector from a Victorian dump in Wiltshire and I acquired it privately from the finder.

Based on the information you have quoted I am obviously happy to have it in my Lincs collection. It is always nice to have something to research like this and ai shall enquire with the Linconshire museum.

I have asked the finder to try and find the matching piece of the clasp but presume it was dumped for perhaps that very reason. However the location may make a colonial piece be less likely.

Many thanks Dean.

[mooke07]

Hi all,

I have found a photo of an Officers' gilt shoulder-belt plate to the 10th North Lincoln Regiment 1847-1855 in Westlakes' English and Welsh Infantry Regiments book (p. 36) where it has the X device in near identical style to that on my waist belt clasp. The shoulder-belt plate in gilt again like my belt buckle makes me think it could well be to the 10th (North Lincoln) Regiment of Foot.

A virtue of 30 C day - read your badge reference books!

Cheers Dean