Royal Irish Fusiliers

[silverwash]

after a protracted period of 30 odd years I have via a trade extricated from a friend this beret. a discussion of this oddity with a fellow forum member has thrown up a couple of anomalies ? any thoughts.................

[saintconor]

First time I've ever seen anything like it. RIF attached RUR? Totally made up? Thanks for posting though.

Conor

[Faugh-A-Ballagh]

That's a very interesting item indeed! Badge looks pretty good too.
I know of one officer who was killed from the RIF attached to the RUR, but I would have no idea what sort of head dress he would have worn. I'm sure this would have been feasable under these circumstances.
Perhaps the markings inside the beret could give an indication as to it's authenticity.
I will post a link from the CWGC website later on.

John

[Faugh-A-Ballagh]

Here is the link to my earlier post.

http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-d...RATH,%20DANIEL

John

[silverwash]

thank you for the replies. regarding the " anomalies ", the usual background I believe for RIF is the elongated triangle as per the avatar and the combinations that could be worn by officers. I am pretty sure this example is an officer's and not OR's as it was not unusual for officers in the Airborne to wear badges of previous regimental allegiance. Tribal I believe is the word.
In the publication " Leading the Way to Arnhem " by Peter Gijbels and David Truesdale there is a photograph of four Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers belonging to 21st Independent Parachute Company wearing the Inniskilling large flaming grenade on their berets although these were exchanged later for the standard PR cap badge. Probably something to do with " falling into line ". The beret is one of the two normal Supak WW2 patterns.The coronet is lugged , reinforced with leather backing and the grenade slidered, retained with the standard oval brass double orificed clip.The photo suffers from what I would call over exposure as the colours are darker in life.

[fougasse1940]

Was Daniel McGrath Att. 6th AB Div or 3rd Inf Div?

The 4 OR Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers in " Leading the Way to Arnhem " are in all likelyhood wearing their badges before the introduction of the Parachute Regiment cap badge in mid 1943. So not so much " falling into line " as " waiting in line "...

Any views on the shamrock shaped backing?

Rgds,

Thomas.

[Faugh-A-Ballagh]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Was Daniel McGrath Att. 6th AB Div or 3rd Inf Div?

The 4 OR Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers in " Leading the Way to Arnhem " are in all likelyhood wearing their badges before the introduction of the Parachute Regiment cap badge in mid 1943. So not so much " falling into line " as " waiting in line "...

Any views on the shamrock shaped backing?

Rgds,

Thomas.

I think, but not certain that he was airborne.
I have seen photos of the shamrock being worn behind the badge several times in WW2 in the museum.

[John Mulcahy]

If you have access to Men-At-Arms 187 "British Battle Insignia 2 1939-45" page 33 has a fine photo of the drum major of the 1st Bn with a shamrock patch to his cap badge while serving with 38th (Irish) Bde, 78th Div. dated late 1944 in Egypt.

[silverwash]

interesting, variation on a theme.thanks for that. I would hazard a guess there was not a proliferation of airborne attributations. trouble is the Imperial War Museum has a vast catalogue of photographs, exploiting them is another matter.

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

If you have access to Men-At-Arms 187 "British Battle Insignia 2 1939-45" page 33 has a fine photo of the drum major of the 1st Bn with a shamrock patch to his cap badge while serving with 38th (Irish) Bde, 78th Div. dated late 1944 in Egypt.

I forgot to add that the same publication shows an illustration of a Sgt with the more usual triangular backing indicating that both backings were in use by 1 Bn at the time for whatever reason.

John

[silverwash]

anomalies. whilst panning for photographic evidence, something I have not twigged until now. Was the London Irish Rifles the only unit to wear their headwear the opposite way, cap badge over the right eye ?

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by silverwash

anomalies. whilst panning for photographic evidence, something I have not twigged until now. Was the London Irish Rifles the only unit to wear their headwear the opposite way, cap badge over the right eye ?

The Irish Guards pipers now also wear their caubeens in the style of The London Irish (although when formed they wore it in the more conventional form , star over left eye and cap pulled right)


R. Irish Fus. have always appeared to wear their caubeens badge over left eye cap pulled right.

[fougasse1940]

Interesting to see how this thread clarifies things. What about the badge, what is the significance of the two part Vs. single part badge? I'm not up to scratch on RIF badges and the search function here on the the Forum didn't net me any results.
The consensus seems to be that this was an officers beret, yet the slidered badge, and the leather band, suggest an OR's beret, right?
When did Supak start making maroon berets? Could this be an OR's beret pre introduction of the Parachute Regiment badge?

Rgds,

Thomas.

[silverwash]

this answer is probably a bit vague but Supak was one of several manufacturers providing berets to the various regiments etc. I assume from 1942 on. I have seen two types of Supak manufacturers markings in WW2 examples and a further type post war. The beret in question is one of the former. I do not think that a beret's type of band indicates specific rank issue, plenty of officers wore the standard one although private purchase examples have cotton /silk bands.

[Luc]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

When did Supak start making maroon berets? Could this be an OR's beret pre introduction of the Parachute Regiment badge?

The earliest example I have seen is from 1944. Without further information it is impossible to put a date on this example.