MOD Badges or Private Made Patches

[Home Guard]

I am running into situations where I see a current or recent patch (TRF. DZ, etc.) offered on eBay and it's not the official MOD offered badge, but one made by a private company. In corresponding with the private company they advise that they provide insignia to various regiments for private purchase. I am thinking that in my collecting I am going to want true MOD offered badges.

What is the general consensus of the members about obtaining private made badges?

If MOD are desired how do you find those?

Thank you,

Terry

[54Bty]

The MoD only provide a very few Formation Badges, mainly those worn by the RM and RN organisations. When the various Formation Badges and the Tactical Recognition Flash was introduced it was decided (and agreed) that they would be purchased by those units that were going to wear them. Therefore there are numerous producers of these badges. And as happened during Gulf 1 many units and individuals have purchased their own unofficially designed badges for wear on helmet covers, body armour, and Bergan's etc., while on Exercise and Operations.

Marc

[grey_green_acorn]

Terry,
A complex subject, here are my views:
Most Formation Badges and Tactical Recognition Flashes although they should be authorised and approved by the Army Dress Committee are in effect ‘private purchase’. This is because they are not to be procured at ‘public expense’ and so do not have NATO Stock numbers (NSNs) or appear in stores catalogues. In effect then Formations and Units order and buy in in bulk using ‘non-public’ funds then issue or in some cases sell through the PRI (unit shop) to soldiers. There are a limited number of UK manufacturers who produce these items and generally they do not (want to) sell individual badges or small quantities to collectors.
However, manufacturers ‘overruns’ are sold to dealers with whom there is a business relationship and therefore a badge from a dealer could be identical to one worn by a soldier.

That said, there are sellers who get badges made to resell which are not from the suppliers to the MOD and units and these badges are often a different size and colour variation to the ‘original’ version. Of course there are also variations in ‘genuine’ badges.

The language used by some dealers is sometimes deceptively complicated with terms like “MOD approved, Official Supplier, MOD Licensed” etc.

Tim

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is an extract from Army Dress Committee minutes:

Tim

[Home Guard]

Thank you gentlemen for the very helpful answers. To be specific, would these be acceptable for a collection?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTP-KIT-UNI...r=542714154102

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROYAL-ARMY-...r=472117130168

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MEDICAL-B...C/333614682591

Thank you!

Terry

[Royal]

I can't answer for the RAMC stuff (though the TRF looks okay to me) but I was certainly issued the small UJ patches over the years for wear on non-UN tours on CS95 and the desert DPM equivalent.

Terry, since the CS95 uniform, the union flag has come already attached to the uniform, so a good 25 years, the one's shown don't look right to me, but Royal has another experience. The DZ patch looks right, i can't comment on the last Medic badge as it is not my sphere of collecting. Regards Mark

[Home Guard]

Thank you everyone! Lots of good help here!!!

Terry

[Alan O]

For the cost of a 2nd class stamp I can send you a genuine Union Jack taken from a uniform.

[oc14]

Drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you both the UJ patch and one of my old 2 Med Brigade Patches (both removed from uniform examples and 100% genuine !)

PL

[Royal]

Originally Posted by MarkGD

Terry, since the CS95 uniform, the union flag has come already attached to the uniform, so a good 25 years, the one's shown don't look right to me, but Royal has another experience. The DZ patch looks right, i can't comment on the last Medic badge as it is not my sphere of collecting. Regards Mark

Thanks Mark - in my experience in the Corps (and a couple of purple units) the UJ flags were indeeed sewn on CS95 shirts on issue apart from the very first red label trials versions we got in Bosnia in 1995. They weren't however sewn on tropicals, the Tantalus or Taiga DPM kit or our windproof smocks. If needed, we got the type illustrated sewn on...

[Staffsyeoman]

Remember, when 7th Armoured Brigade deployed to the first Gulf War they wanted to wear the 7th Armoured Division Desert Rat again, so an enterprising soul contacted a supplier of reproductions for a job lot; unfortunately, they were sent the NW Europe version (because that is what he had) but they became "genuine" by virtue of actual wear.

A couple of medical units had badges approved but they did not arrive in theatre in time to be worn, so they trickled into the collectors' market.

Friend of mine at work who commanded a former Yeomanry unit converted to a Signal Squadron refused to put up the 2 UK Signal Brigade sign (the horseshoe with a 2 therein) as long as he was expected to pay for it himself.

But as others will surely attest, for a while it was the Wild West with so many variations appearing as different manufacturers supplied different batches - the case of XVI Regiment RLC comes to mind.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Royal

Thanks Mark - in my experience in the Corps (and a couple of purple units) the UJ flags were indeeed sewn on CS95 shirts on issue apart from the very first red label trials versions we got in Bosnia in 1995. They weren't however sewn on tropicals, the Tantalus or Taiga DPM kit or our windproof smocks. If needed, we got the type illustrated sewn on...

I was in 1 UK Div in 1993 when the trial kit came out. Much to the RSM's annoyance the trial team said categorically no badges were to be sewn on.
In 1996 I received the standard kit without flags for a Bosnia deployment. It took a couple of years before they came with the flags sewn on.

[NewRNcollector]

I was issued the 2 Sig Bde TRF to be worn on the shirt/jacket along with the R Sigs flash on the right arm. UJ badges were initially given out and you were expected to sew them on yourselves.

With the change from C95 to Multi Cam, the system changed as the badges were mostly sewn onto removable oblongs...with the correct spacing, direction etc.

A lot of units I worked with or saw had a variety of TRF's.....and as stated these were nearly always paid for by the unit. In some cases the recipient had to actually buy them (at cost). I have a few TRF's that were made for a unit, but the Cpl who ordered them got the order wrong! so the small batch were simply scrapped.....apart from the few which were kept by collectors and those who wore them as a "micky take"...until they were told to remove them.

Some TRF's were made for specific roles...i.e. Operation Anvil. The TRF's were a picture of an anvil facing left and three different background were used.

The UBACS cap badge representation is/was purely private buy...these were mainly used on bergans and other "softies"...soft baggage for identification purposes when moving lots of people at once, usually by plane. Often the wearer would also put a name tag on too.

Name tags were standard issue and had to be worn on all dress. However, in certain scenarios they were ordered to be removed.

I have seen personnel wearing combat clothing with ALL badges removed, again for particular operations..

Again, in the field, the brightly coloured badges were often blackened out with black masking tape.....TRF's, UJ and even para wings.

TRF's are a very interesting subject. There are huge numbers and many variations...I have simple ones like the RA in four different sizes! but all were worn. Another good example is the Para Regt ones, they too come in different sizes. The main problem can be identifying them as some are very unusual.

I have seen a lot of TRF's for sale on TheBay but these are basically WW2 reproductions and were never used! That said the old 50th Inf Div with the TT was used by the Tyne Tees Regiment (TA).

One of the examples listed above is the RAMC three colour one....this is used by all RAMC still (and even used by the TV series "Our Girl").

Sorry...could be here for hours on this subject....

Hope this helps...if you require further information of help in identifying I may be able to help (I have about a thousand!)

Regards,
Paul

[NewRNcollector]

Couple of examples....
the 2 Sig Bde were all worn by me!

RA to show the different sizes.