Cameronian's Piper's Badge

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

Has anyone seen any other examples of this badge?

It is a Cameronian Pipers piece made of a chromed metal with three lugs.

The dimensions of the badge are:

approx. 84 mm across the extremities of the scroll.
approx. 60 mm from the top point of the star to the scroll below the letter 'E'

The weight of the badge is 19.10 grams and its thickness is around 1.28 mm or about 50 thou.

Both the badge and the lugs are chromed implying that the chrome plate was added after the lugs were attached to the badge's body. Evidence of chromium cleaner is evident to the crevices to the rear of the badge suggesting that the badge had been cleaned, for a reason, in the past.

Regards

Chris

[Alex Rice]

Hi Chris
Never seen one of these before. Unless there is a TA unit wearing these badges I suspect it is a modern repro. Something I noticed while wondering around at the world pipe band champs in Glasgow some years ago is that a lot of civvie bands wear Scottish Regimental badges, so it may be one made for that market. The one I have of these has very sturdy, long lugs on it.
Cheers,
Alex

[2747andy]

What about the size? These larger patterns always seem to appear with the same lug configuration and in Wm, Gm and Now chromed too!

Are these not all reproduction, copy or civilian pipe band items? I thought the originals were a wee bit smaller and with strengthening to where the star rests on the base scroll and found both lugged and with a Pagri style long slider?

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Chris
Never seen one of these before. Unless there is a TA unit wearing these badges I suspect it is a modern repro. Something I noticed while wondering around at the world pipe band champs in Glasgow some years ago is that a lot of civvie bands wear Scottish Regimental badges, so it may be one made for that market. The one I have of these has very sturdy, long lugs on it.
Cheers,
Alex

Hi Alex,

Sorry wrong posting!

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Hi Alex, Andy.

Dunno - do we know if they are being reproduced?

Regards

Chris

[2747andy]

Chris,
The larger badge is quite common, the smaller far less so! I have this one on eBay at the moment;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scarce-Cam...-/390834143221

...and will get some comparison images added to the thread later today when I get in front of the PC.

Andy

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Chris
Never seen one of these before. Unless there is a TA unit wearing these badges I suspect it is a modern repro. Something I noticed while wondering around at the world pipe band champs in Glasgow some years ago is that a lot of civvie bands wear Scottish Regimental badges, so it may be one made for that market. The one I have of these has very sturdy, long lugs on it.
Cheers,
Alex

Hi Alex,

Is it quite common for civilian bands to wear Scottish Regimental cap badges? One line of inquiry for this badge is that it may have been commissioned by a non-military source.

Regards

Chris

[Alex Rice]

Hi Chris
Yes, surprisingly common. Mostly, Argylls, Camerons, Seaforths & BW badges.
Cheers,
Alex

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Chris
Yes, surprisingly common. Mostly, Argylls, Camerons, Seaforths & BW badges.
Cheers,
Alex

Many Thanks Alex!

Regards

Chris

[2747andy]

Chris,
here are the images, note the larger badge does not have strengthening. I'm not sure why two sizes of badge? Perhaps the Pipers followed the trend of the rest of the Regiment and "Sergeants" wore a larger badge? This I doubt as Pipe Bands within Military units are very small organisations, with the pipers probably numbering in singles figures and "Sgt" pipers even less!

Probably a swingeing statement, but I seriously think the larger badges are fake, or at best as Alex mentions for Civilian Pipers headdresses?

Andy

[hagwalther]

Thanks Andy,

The Civilian Piper Bands is an area that needs to be investigated to see what is what in this particular arena.

More work to do!

Regards

Chris

[Coliny]

Many civilian pipe bands do indeed wear army glengarry badges - often due to a local or personal connection. Our band in NE Scotland are issued with Queens Own badges but Cameronians, HLI, Gordons and clan badges are worn by various individuals!

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Coliny

Many civilian pipe bands do indeed wear army glengarry badges - often due to a local or personal connection. Our band in NE Scotland are issued with Queens Own badges but Cameronians, HLI, Gordons and clan badges are worn by various individuals!

Thanks Coliny,

Something I need to look into more - are there any publications regarding military badges worn by civilian pipe bands?

Regards

Chris

[leigh kitchen]

I haven't got a photo of the reverse, black painted over an anodized finish, it has two flat, pierced lugs which as I recall are bent back from the badge rather than attached. Haven't seen it for a few years, it's somewhere around.

[ray smith]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Chris,
here are the images, note the larger badge does not have strengthening. I'm not sure why two sizes of badge? Perhaps the Pipers followed the trend of the rest of the Regiment and "Sergeants" wore a larger badge? This I doubt as Pipe Bands within Military units are very small organisations, with the pipers probably numbering in singles figures and "Sgt" pipers even less!

Probably a swingeing statement, but I seriously think the larger badges are fake, or at best as Alex mentions for Civilian Pipers headdresses?

Andy

Hi Andy, The smaller badge I have, Mine has the long slider fitted,It has been converted from lugs, It also has the strengtheners to the star.
Out of interest I also have the larger one made of brass with three lugs.
Regards
Ray