Bronzed Norfolk Regiment OR's cap badge

[Nozzer]

Not sure about this one. Badge would appear to be genuine, struck in brass or gilding metal and then bronzed with two lugs to the reverse. Badge is taken from the same die as this http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=130511 and this http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=130510 so is quite early.

I have never come accross this badge before, so Any ideas as to what it is?

Many thanks in advance,

Andy

[Sonofacqms]

Andy,

I would think this is just an other ranks cap badge that has been blackened for whatever purpose, I have a small Norfolk collection and I have never seen a blackened/bronzed version of this badge.

Rob

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

Not sure about this one. Badge would appear to be genuine, struck in brass or gilding metal and then bronzed with two lugs to the reverse. Badge is taken from the same die as this http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=130511 and this http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=130510 so is quite early.

I have never come accross this badge before, so Any ideas as to what it is?

Many thanks in advance,

Andy

Andy,

Any signs of it being theatre-made, and/or vestiges of a slider?

[Nozzer]

Definitely not theatre made/cast and no signs of a slider.

Initially I thought it might have been either an unfinished 1916 all GM that has had lugs added, but I think it was made this way for some reason.

I have the same strike in silver plate also http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=130508

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

Definitely not theatre made/cast and no signs of a slider.

Initially I thought it might have been either an unfinished 1916 all GM that has had lugs added, but I think it was made this way for some reason.

I have the same strike in silver plate also http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=130508

Just a few thoughts...

• Looped, so perhaps dates to no later than 1903/06-ish(?).

• This possibly substantiated by the other looped examples you have which appear to be struck from the same die.

• All-g/m, but seems to pre-date the Great War 'economy' badges of 1916, so maybe intended to be coated at point of manufacture in some or other manner (gilt, bronze, silver etc).

[Alan O]

Interesting badge and cannot be pre 1915 as it's all brass and not w/m Britannia. It's not a 1915 economy OR's issue with the lugs.

As been has shown elsewhere it's not a pagri either.

So its likely to be something else and an (un)bronzed officers abdge is an option.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Interesting badge and cannot be pre 1915 as it's all brass and not w/m Britannia. It's not a 1915 economy OR's issue with the lugs.

As been has shown elsewhere it's not a pagri either.

So its likely to be something else and an (un)bronzed officers abdge is an option.

I take your point regarding it not being pre-1916 all-G/M, because Britannia is not w/m, but if the initial intention was to have the badge coated form the outset, it would surely have been manufactured from brass in order to facilitate the process, pre or post-1916 all-G/M issue era, would it not?

[Alan O]

Absolutely but then we are back to why was it made and for what coating? The die struck construction with lugs is not the norm for an officers bz badge.

it's not a pagri so what hat was it for?

[Sonofacqms]

I don't think as far as I am aware officers wore this pattern of badge, their badge was Britannia on a plinth in either OSD or gilt.

My guess is it was made as a trial pattern for whatever reason, hence the reason we are debating what it is, obviously a rare item.


Rob

[Alan O]

Rob,

Indeed so why make this one? Without any history it may be an example of an early restrike using an old die but in the wrong metals and with incorrect lugs? Hopefully some one can prove otherwise.

Alan

[Jelly Terror]

Andy, any chance of a side-on, close up view of the loops at all? Do they look kosher?

Cheers.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Rob,

Indeed so why make this one? Without any history it may be an example of an early restrike using an old die but in the wrong metals and with incorrect lugs? Hopefully some one can prove otherwise.

Alan

IMG_7259.jpg

Oi, stop cheating, Alan!

The burden of proof lies with those who make an assertion.

[Alan O]

Good point.

The fact that the front is so worn but the lugs appear to have retained their black coating is confusing. It's clearly made from a quality die but why the lugs?

[Nozzer]

Thank you for your replies Gentlemen. All well thought out and structured analysis.

The one thing that struck me was the considerable loss of bronzing to the front, yet the reverse remains completely (almost) untouched. Now, this is possible if it has been fitted to an item of clothing or display for some considerable time, only being removed fairly recently. The only issue I would have with that is given that the lugs are slightly squashed and misshapen, I would expect to see slightly more wear and loss of colour on them.

Now, I feel the badge is genuine or at worst as Alan has already pointed out an early restrike. It might have something to do with the silver plate version that I have already shown and has either not been finished or finished incorrectly or possibly tampered with at a later date.

As has been said before, if only these things could talk.........

anyway, more pictures.

[Sonofacqms]

While I am aware that most manufacturers abided by the trial pattern designs and stipulations I am sure there were differences in manufacture.

This badge has all the characteristics of a curiosity, if original, probably made one hundred years ago, maybe at the request of the Colonel, but unless anyone has the necessary paperwork or other evidence then I would keep it under the unknown category.

Rob