A Question of Ethics. Read Me First.

[jubilationtcornpone]

This is a theoretical question based on an actual incident. My youngest son recently attended an antique show where he encountered a dealer who sold antique china but who also happened to have 2 German Second World War helmets, one a parachutist helmet, and a Japanese army officer's sword. These had belonged to his father-in-law. He was asking $50.00 USD apiece. My son is a poor college student and left with nothing. I know little about Japanese swords but it did have the wavy line along the blade indicating that it had been tempered. German helmets go for about $500.00 for a plain army helmet and $3500.00 USD for a parachutist helmet. I know we are dealing with British and Commonwealth badges here but the ethical question is the same. Comments welcomed.

Don

[slick_mick]

I think that there are plenty of free online resources for dealers and buyers alike to access information to help them ascertain an item's value.

If a dealer doesn't make the effort and under prices an item then more power to the buyer I say.

Plus if he has priced an item at say US$50 then he is obviously happy to get that price for it.

Mick

[rockape560]

hi,

again im no expert but if you offer the dealer a price then see what he says and if he a true dealer he will give you a price that he can make a profit on ...but dont forget you can always walk away if your not happy

philip

[geezer#199]

This is a true dilemma but one has to ponder what has happened here. Another example, one day an individual walked into an antique dealers shop and noticed a spoked car rim. He inquired as to the price of the rim, knowing what it was. The dealer said the shopper could have it for $10.00. The shopper said he would take it and the shop owner advised him that he had 4 more like them in the back he could have all 5 for $50.00. The shopper took them and the next day sold all 5 for $2000.00. Now the rims were from a Ford Mustang and a sought after commodity. The shop owner priced the items according to what he thought they were worth according to what he had paid for them. He made a profit and the shopper made a profit.

It may be a rather callous way of looking at it but if you are in the business to deal with such items then you should be aware as to their worth. The means to find out what an item is worth nowadays is so easy with the Internet and such.

The good deals are out there.

[Phillip Herring]

The flip side is the dealer who has no qualms about charging much more than an item is worth when a novice collector or veteran is buying a badge.

There was one dealer (no longer with us) who was notorious for his high prices. He had a pair of scarce collar badges - not in any of the books, but within my specialize field of interest. I bought them with no haggling at his marked price.
Ethical dilemma? No, since a couple of years previously he had made such a low offer on a couple of my badges that it was insulting.

Phil

[jim a]

he's a dealer making a living buying and selling....he should take the time to become informed of what he is selling or be happy with the deals he makes...he is not a little old lady who has no idea of what she is selling..

[Alan O]

I would have bought them - the seller would have been happy as would I. More of a dilemma if you were a third party observer and it was the other way around with a delaer offering peanuts to a poor student!

I have in the past offered dealers advice on realistic badge prices and they are not interested unless you are handing over money.

[REMEVMBEA1]

Originally Posted by jim a

he's a dealer making a living buying and selling....he should take the time to become informed of what he is selling or be happy with the deals he makes...he is not a little old lady who has no idea of what she is selling..

My thoughts exactly. As a dealer he is almost certainly making a profit .

[5WWCT]

What about this senario, one day you pick up a rare badge for next to nothing taking advantage of the antique dealers ignorants and then the next day your in the shop and mavis walks in offering her fathers exceedingly rare medals and badges to the dealer which offers her peanuts for the group(for which she accepts), do you inform her of the real value unlike you didnt do the other day with the dealer or do you keep your mouth shut?.

[davec2]

Hi Don,

I'm afraid that standards or no standards, I would have paid his asking price, it would apply to badges too, we rarely " drop on ", so I would take full advantage of an obvious bargain, I'm slightly ashamed at my reply, but there you go.

Anyone got a Bandsmans' Blue Cloth Helmet to the Duke of Edinburgh's Royal Regiment that they want to get rid of for £20.00p ???

Dave.

[Charlie585]

As an occasional seller, I have sometimes knowingly offered and sold items for less than their full value. If I have managed to get my asking price then I'm happy with the deal knowing that a collector has what he may feel is a bargain addition to his collection.

On the other hand, if I spot an item that is in my opinion an absolute give away that is in my area of interest, I'm happy to take a bargain to add to my collection.

Should I feel my conscience nagging me on occasion, I just remind myself that the item now has a good home, is part of a collection and it may go some way toward offsetting the cost of some of the more expensive items in the collection.

It's pay the asking price for me!

Ry

[davec2]

Hi WWCT,

A good point ( I only know one " antiques dealer " and he's as sharp as a razor ) but isn't there a common rule that ignorance is no excuse ? I know it applies to the Law.

As for Mavis, well my heart tells me to tell her but my head would be saying she should know not to sell to the first offer ??

Anyone got a comfy fence for me ??

Dave.

[Jibba Jabba]

Don,

I would blame you for the incident!.........sending that poor lad to the market with out a bean in his pocket!

If an item is insanely cheap already.........stop messing about.....GET IT BOUGHT!

[Old Smelly]

Pay the dealer what he askes, if he's made a mistake, tuff! If I felt quilty after I had made a big profit, than I might drop some extra in the RBL tin.
Lee

[peter4447]

Although not badges an incident occured with my own collecting that maybe of interest.
In the fairly recent past I purchased a couple of magnificent White Star Line dinner plates for my collection, which were on display in an Antique Centre.
The seller was not 'on duty' at the Antique Centre that day and although he had put a high price on the items, I was quite happy with this price as they were a bargain and I would have expected to have paid much more for them from a specialised dealer.
A couple of weeks later I visited the shop of a specialised dealer, who I have dealt with for many years and in conversation he mentioned "Somebody got the find of the century at such and such Antique Centre the other day".
When I said it was me he replied "You should not have brought them, you should have left them for me!".
At first I thought he was joking but he was deadly serious. It appears this was one of the Antique Centres he uses when looking for stock and another dealer had mentioned the items I had purchased when he had visited a few days later.
In mentioning this, my point is that the White Star flag and name was clearly marked on both items, so that the initial seller had only to look at such as EBay to see what they were currently selling for. That he had not done so is surely his choice.
I must admit I was more than annoyed at the specialist dealer's remarks, as although I appreciate he has to sell to make a living, if an item is on display for sale and the price is clearly marked, why should a collector be expected to leave it for a dealer to buy so that he can then mark it up and resell it!
Peter4447