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  #1  
Old 09-06-09, 02:29 AM
jim a jim a is offline
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Default McGill ?

I was comparing this badge to the one illustrated in Mazeas as cotc 11 1926...cotc 11a is also McGill but a totally different badge and listed as pre 1922. Where I'm getting confused is my badge is maker marked GEO H LEES & CO 1915. What's up with this?
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Old 09-06-09, 02:43 AM
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I didn't know Old George made badges, Must be a good one.
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  #3  
Old 09-06-09, 04:38 AM
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Maz has been wrong before. Not a good photo here, but since the illustrated McGill crest in the montage from WWI is the same as the COTC badge, and since yours is dated 1915, looks like he's wrong again re dates.

Too bad about the res. of this picture as it would be a no-brainer to ID the badges in use at the time. Maybe McGill archives could provide a better version.

As an aside, I've seen the "11a" badge for sale described as a 'cadet' badge, although it is not shown on the Cadet history site. Found a pdf of a McGill booklet dated 1906 which says:

"The Cadet Corps is part of the Sixth Regiment (Duke of Connaught's
Own Rifles), is officered by the College boys, and possesses all
the necessary equipment for drill and rifle-shooting . It presents a smart
appearance on parade."

Whether that 'smart appearance' includes an 11a, or any, cap badge I don't know.
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Old 09-06-09, 04:51 AM
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Jim,

The badge you've pictured (COTC 11) is one of those where there was a good deal of lag time before official sanction through a GO. The badge was in use during WWI, but not authourized until 1926. Your example, with the LEES mark & the 1915 date, would be one of the first (or perhaps the first) issue of this pattern. It's a good one!

COTC 11a is a bit of a mystery. It is generally attributed to the initial two PPCLI reinforcing companies recruited from McGill in 1915. If so, 11a is really more of a CEF badge than a COTC badge.
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Old 09-06-09, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug N View Post
COTC 11a is a bit of a mystery. It is generally attributed to the initial two PPCLI reinforcing companies recruited from McGill in 1915. If so, 11a is really more of a CEF badge than a COTC badge.
Doug, would those 2 companies be the "McGill Btn." I ran across mention of?
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  #6  
Old 09-06-09, 06:04 PM
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Hi, You're not the only one with a badge marked : Geo. H Lees & Co 1915

My McGill is marked the same way.

It may make sense that cadets were part of DCRCH... or related.

I got this badge in a lot that was related to Duke Connaught & Duke of York RCH.

Still it's older than I tought it to be!
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  #7  
Old 09-06-09, 08:09 PM
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Default Canadian Officers' Training Corps

A little known reference exists for the COTC, Canadian Regimental Insignia 1920 to Unification Book 2 THE Canadian Officers' Training Corps (With WW1 Universtiy Raised Units, by Chris Brooker, 2007.
In this reference Chris indicates that McGill raised the McGill Auxiliary Battalion which trained volunteers, and were issued the McGill COTC 11 pattern badge. Dark brown finishes and a gilding metal finish can be found. The pattern was not approved by GO until 1926.
COTC 11a is described as being undocumented. He suggests that these badges are for the first two reinforcing companies drawn from the McGill student body in 1915. This is suggested by the intertwined Mc G and A and B. This supports Doug's suggestion that 11a is more a CEF badge than a COTC badge.
McGill also raised the 148 Battalion during WW1.
*Footnote 1*
In this book, the PPCLI badges are discussed at some length. Of particular interest, Chris Brooker writes that the brass PPCLI shoulder titles may have been issued for the PPCLI reinforcing drafts that were raised in Canada. This is supported by evidence on the shoulder titles. They were marked Caron Bros Montreal 1915 and Birks 1916 along with unmarked brass PPCLI titles. These were all two bar titles, one at the top of the letters and one at the base. There was another Caron Bros 1919 title for the PPCLI, single bar at the base.
As the PPCLI wore the embroidered white on red shoulder titles when the unit embarked from Canada in 1914, and photo evidence suggests the practice continued in France / Flanders, this may be the explanation behind the rather scarce PPCLI brass titles.
*Footnote 2* There exists an enamel gilt pattern cap badge COTC 11 pattern. These are extremely scarce and are marked JR GAUNT Montreal.

Last edited by Bill A; 09-06-09 at 08:22 PM.
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  #8  
Old 26-10-09, 08:57 PM
GCR817 GCR817 is offline
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I am positive that the 1915 dated McGill badges are from the PPCLI reinforcement drafts. A fellow PPCLI collector friend of mine has a Patricia KIA medals group with all the insignia. The fellow was from the McGill reinforcements drafts and was killed in 1917.
With his medals and assorted badges, there is the 1915 dated McGill badge along with two matching collars. The collars are identical to the center shield portion of the cap badge.

Cheers,

Geoff

Last edited by GCR817; 27-10-09 at 01:53 PM.
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