203 HG Aux sleeve flashes on ebay

[Jack8]

Are any of our members watching this lot on eBay?

The number fonts are not correct in my opinion particularly the 0. Also the 1 in the eleven flashes look incorrect to me.

The seller described them as original, If they are genuine they should achieve a high price but I am not convinced they are.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...obalID=EBAY-GB

Opinions please,

Jack

[Peter Brydon]

Individual genuine Home Guard numbers seem to sell for around £20 each and a lot more for high numbers. I think if a lot of people thought these were genuine they would already be at a considerably higher figure than they are at the moment.

I agree with Jack the fonts don't seem quite right and I don't like the way the ink seems to be smudged or to have run.

P.B.

[manchesters]

They are complete dross.

[54Bty]

It was my understanding that the Aux did not have their own numbers and wore the numbers & letters of the unit to which they were on the books of.

Marc

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by manchesters

They are complete dross.

Agreed. Mike

[Mike_2817]

Any evidence that Aux Units wore these numbers? seems a little odd for a supposedly secret underground unit - wearing the local number and not being part of the unit would raise eyebrows as well! if seen out and about in uniform that is.

[popskipa]

The eBay items are fake.

For illustrations of originals see "Some Talk of Private Armies" by Len Whittaker. The actual HG Auxiliary Units insignia, illustrated in Len's book, are on display in my local museum the Combined Military Services Museum, Maldon, Essex.

Keith

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by popskipa

The eBay items are fake.

For illustrations of originals see "Some Talk of Private Armies" by Len Whittaker. The actual HG Auxiliary Units insignia, illustrated in Len's book, are on display in my local museum the Combined Military Services Museum, Maldon, Essex.

Keith

Hi Keith,

Hope I haven't missed something but I can't see any illustrations of original examples of these flashes in my 1984 copy of STOPA, only the enamel lapel badge and the Doormouse cloth patch?

Jack

[popskipa]

Hi Jack,

Sorry, you are quite right the HG Auxiliary Units numerals are not in STOPA. They were in Len's collection when I bought it, and now on display in the museum.

Keith

[Jack8]

Just sold for £29.51. Says it all really.

Jack

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jack8

Just sold for £29.51. Says it all really.

Jack

Words fail me (almost) Mike

[paj1]

Hi Guys
See Jon Mills Superb Book on LDV & Home Guard Insignia & uniforms
By Early 1943 Aux Unit Members Were Wearing On Their Battledress sleeves
County Letters Together With One Of The Numerals 201, 202 or 203
Regards Julian

[54Bty]

Found this:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30103060

Marc

[Peter Brydon]

Marc,

Also an almost identical part of a sleeve with the same badges illustrated on plate LXV in Mills and Carney.

Peter

[Postwarden]

The whole subject of Aux Unit numbers is covered in the book I wrote with Terry Carney which other members have kindly mentioned.

Aux Unit members were originally carried on the books of local units but were later removed. The extract from our book below explains the complicated history and refers to an example worn on a greatcoat.

A fellow collector has seen a photograph of the numbers being worn although they do not appear in this photo from the same collector's collection.

Should anyone come up with a photo of it being worn please share it!

Examples of the numbers are shown

Jon

Debate has taken place over the years as to exact the status of Aux Unit members and their relation to the Home Guard. Were they members? Were they carried on the strength of Home Guard units? The Southern Command letter of August 1940 clearly places the organisation within the Home Guard, but it is obvious from surviving records that many original members were probably not at the outset in the Home Guard, only becoming members at a later date. In January 1941 a “Most Secret” letter addressed to Secretaries of the Associations dealt with the control of “Auxiliary Units of the Home Guard known as Scout Patrols or Observation Units”. This stated that :

“Units will be borne on the strength of the Home Guard Battalion Headquarters (not of Companies) for record purposes...and for the purpose of claims for allowances, compensation for disability and other financial benefits which may be admissible. The Intelligence Officer of Auxiliary Units concerned will forward direct to Battalion Headquarters a nominal roll of personnel for purposes of verification.”

which clearly makes them Home Guard personnel at this date, at least for administrative purposes. Three months later this position was reinforced, a further letter explaining that selected men were being enrolled into Auxiliary Units. It emphasised that they retained their Home Guard status and operated in their home localities, but came under the control of Headquarters, Auxiliary Units. This confusing structure caused further complications when battalion letters and numerals began to be worn.

Aux Units were originally forbidden by a WO Letter of March 1941, to wear county designations, presumably because as auxiliers they were actually part of Home Forces. A subsequent letter of 25th April 1942, which gave permission for members of Auxiliary Units administered by County TAAs to wear county lettering and numbers caused uncertainty. Wearing the number of the battalion on whose books the auxilier was borne, but with whom he never did duty, would give rise to comment, but to wear lettering without a battalion number would immediately attract attention. Similarly, wearing the number of a battalion to which the man belonged on paper, whilst he operated in a battalion area at the other end of the county might also be thought suspicious.

This conundrum was resolved in the summer of 1942, when all Association Secretaries received a War Office letter instructing them that personnel of Auxiliary Units would, as from 1st September 1942, cease to be their responsibility. Unit Commanders were instructed to delete the names of auxiliers from their books. Home Forces had decided that all Aux Unit members would be carried on the books of three new units, described as General Headquarters (GHQ) Reserve Bns, three TAAs having responsibility for administration of the battalions. Inverness-shire would look after 201st GHQ Reserve Bn, covering Scotland and Northumberland, York would be responsible for 202nd covering the country southwards to the line of the Thames and Severn rivers, whilst 203rd Bn, covering the Southern and South East Commands would be dealt with by the Association based at Reading. As auxiliers were not carried on the strength of local units after this date, it might be assumed that they were no longer members of the Home Guard, although it is clear that their administration was carried on by the same TAAs which administered the remainder of the force. Confirmation of this continued HG status is given by a Home Guard service certificate issued to a know auxilier, which shows service to the end of 1944, implying that he must have been, at least on paper, a qualifying Home Guard at that date to receive it.

By early 1943 auxiliers forming these new battalions were wearing on their battledress sleeves the letters of the county in which they were based, together with one of the numerals 201, 202 or 203, official issues being produced in the same style as those for existing GS and AA units (227). By mid-1943 these were listed in the War Vocabulary of Clothing and Necessaries (see Appendix C) alongside the other letters and numbers for which a QM might indent.

As if to prove that nothing is ever simple with HG insignia, a surviving Home Guard greatcoat shows the standard shoulder title and the numeral 202 worn high up on the sleeve, leaving no space for county lettering. The reason for the absence of the letters is unknown, although this may have been worn by a battalion member operating in several counties.